DAWs and drums: What do you use?
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@siebass Mar 2022
I used to program every hit, then I used EZ drummer for a while, but now I've settled on Logic Pro X's AI drummer. I have found incredible increases in speed of demo creation without noticeable-to-my-ears differences in drum sound quality when I set the "Arrangement" (i.e. "Form") markers in Logic Pro X and let the AI drummer do its thing. If I've picked the right "style" for the drummer, I'm usually happy out of the gate but more importantly it is FAST FAST FAST so I can get back to creating or working other elements of the song.
If I want something more polished in the non-FAWM times, I'll convert the AI drum parts to midi, split out the individual drums to their own tracks, customize hits if needed, then mix, eq, and compress the individual tracks to taste. Often times can get something that sounds "good enough" or close just mixing the drum bus, though.
If I'm feeling really jaunty I'll play my midi-trigger-converted drum kit and then replace the samples with ones from Logic or EZ Drummer.
What do y'all use for your drums/percussion in your music, if anything? Any tools or plugins you really love? Anything you really hate?
We've come a long way from programming each hit, but it does still work (but I do hate that b/c of how much time it takes me to click and compose). -
@phenola Mar 2022
Live MIDI drum kit (Roland TD-3), then I edit the MIDI data note by note and use it to drive some Cubase drum kit plugin.
I couldn't live with myself if I used an AI. I have a serious philosophical objection to that. I already give myself a hard time for occasionally using synth arpeggiators. If I didn't write it myself then it doesn't belong on the album. -
@siebass Mar 2022
@phenola that's a fair point as an ethos, and there are U.S. copyright implications for works that are SOLELY created by AI (they can't be copyrighted). I guess I've always viewed them as just more advanced colors in my toolkit, like instead of red yellow blue, it's secondary or tertiary colors, or even simple pictures put in, but I still make the artistic choices of how to order, sequence, arrange and incorporate those pieces into a bigger whole.
For the AI drummer, I like to think of it as having an AI session player brought in, where I tell them where and when to play the verse, intro, bridge, chorus here at these parts, with this energy, use the crash/ride here, more fills in this part, use the toms on the bridge, etc. I have a Roland TD-2 brain for my kit, and I CAN play, but I play sloppy and the note by note repair eats time.
If I knew more about how to do arpeggiators on my own, I'd try, but I use presets for those as well, testing each one until I find one that I like and fits with the song in my mind. -
@datsch Mar 2022
I tried programming each hit which as you say is a pain and never feels that real. I tried a Zoom123... drum machine which is quite playable on the little pads but I didn't like any of the sounds, and they didn't have enough feel. I tried an EZ-drummer-style thing I can't remember the name of but tired of auditioning lots of loops and fills. I tried hitting cardboard boxes and plates and boxes full of spoons. I also tried hiring a fiverr drummer but my music is so wayward I had to edit note by note even though he was a great drummer.
So past few years I don't bother with drums, by making everything else as full and rythmically intersting as possoble. I don't really like them anyway. I will eventually bite the bullet and get a small kit with a couple of overhead mics and just learn how to play.
My question is this: Is is possible to add drums later? I'm not sure I could lay down drums first as that's not how I write ... -
@elesimo Mar 2022
I thought using loops was cheating so I programmed my own samples. Then I thought using samples was cheating so I recorded real drums.
I then thought that programming it was cheating so I learnt to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating so I learnt to make my own.
I then thought that using pre-made skins was cheating so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all. -
@datsch Mar 2022
Farming? People are so lazy these days. Back when I were a lad you had to go out hunting and wild-forage your goats, Once you'd hand-whittled your bow and arrows of course. After cutting off a stout yew branch with your teeth ...
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@chinacat Mar 2022
I've struggled with this for years and that's a big part of why I haven't been much of a "solo" artist in the past. What I finally found worked for me, and I used on many songs on FAWM in Feb, is I'll program the kick, snare, and high-hat/ride in Logic using the step sequencer. I then add a "Drummer" and have it "follow" that simple beat I've programmed. I then play around with the settings and often come up with something I like.
I've also used Band-In-A-Box a bit. It's incredibly powerful but has a crappy UI. I'll write out my song and render "Real Tracks" for each instrument, then I replace all the instruments with me playing but keep the drums.
The 4-Track-Challenge is the first time I ever recorded myself actually playing the drum kit (I have Roland V-Drums) and it went better than expected, so I plan to do more of that in the future too (I want to experiment with recording as MIDI rather than audio so I can "fix" things more easily). -
@johnstaples Mar 2022
Use whatever tools help you create the song. If the end result sounds good then it is good.
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@elesimo Mar 2022
@phenola I apologize if I came across as rude, I just wanted to make a funny point. The "goat farming" post is a meme that often shows up in discussions like these.
Personally, I have no strong feelings about this. I think there's value in using AI, and I think there's value in doing things from scratch. At the end of the day, for me the important things are (1) are you enjoying the process and (2) are you communicating what you want to communicate with your art? How you do it is irrelevant to me, and just like in FAWM each person has their own criteria and goals — and that's what matters. -
@johnstaples Mar 2022
For most of my life I dismissed a lot of music and other art as not authentic. Or not "real" music/art. Was it really art when Farrah Fawcett hurled her gold-painted naked body against a canvas? "NO" I said! Was Piss Christ art? Again I said "NO!" Was rap and hip-hop legit music? "Of course not!", said I.
I Was Wrong. -
@brisk Mar 2022
I just do it on the piano roll - and it shows, I have no natural feel for drum parts, and I think I'm often working against my own song. But for some reason it's a non-negotiable part of the process for me. I use Addictive Drums 2 in Reaper, and have ended up buying a variety of kits over various sales because I'm a sucker. I really like them though.
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@nadine Mar 2022
I'm deep into MIDI programming with piano roll, sometimes also playing rough ideas on the keys. I often create my own beats, but sometimes I use fills from MIDIs cause they are the hardest part. I don't use sample loops there.
On electronic music I used hihat and percussion loops cause it's been too hard to find a good combination of samples. Bassdrum snare and fills are all my programming.
@datsch: A good drummer is able to play drums after the other instruments were recorded, when everybody played on click. But it's hard, cause the drums have to be exact with the bass. -
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@wobbiewobbit Mar 2022
i use loops in addictive drums 2. it varies how much i alter them or how small the blocks of percussive lego are. i add little highlights sometimes. really depends on track and circumstances. i do wonder about the legitamacy of loops but i think @elesimo's analogy it very true and what he followed up with is very wise. Also i think the focus of the song is key. If the rhythm track is the feature then i would definitely feel like i am cheating, but if i wanted some punky drums for my funny, punky song then i have no qualms of using a drummer provided by AD2 (they are professional drummers playing the loops - i will NEVER de able to do what they do and deciding to do that rather than getting on with the song would mean it doesn't get done as effectively)
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@dukongp100 Mar 2022
Good question - I view drums lazily. As long as a rhythmic pattern is underneath the main track, it usually does the job. I’ll just add key hits at fade-outs, transitons, using Sytrus in flstudio. I’ve use the audio of my guitar in the past, and simply added effects until it sounds drum like. I usually try and get a cymbal like sound, a kick like sound, and a snare type sound. Then I’ll align these slightly off time until they sound like percussion. It’s a long way round to basically not bother programming my own drums, but it does sound pretty unique. Ofc I will also use the basic drum sounds that load up in fl, and just mess about with them in velocity, volume, panning, which creates a cool sound also.
I’m now wanting to use a Ringo Starr approach, and be creative with drums, rather than just 4/4 kick snare hitting. While that works a lot of the time for the most part, I feel there’s value in seeing where I can go with a drumbeat myself, rather than sampling.
One day I’ll go to sampling I reckon. I currently feel energetic enough to construct my own drum kits. Maybe I can sample my own drums, like Viper does sometimes .. -
@timfatchen Mar 2022
Inevitably I do occasionally use MIDI drums, three ways, direct input from the midi keyboard, direct input from an actual MIDI pad (I use a souped up Guitar Hero set! but with real drumsticks!) or the MIDI fills and frills from the original Drumtrax of 20+ years ago (no relation to the current collection/program of the same name) because they're all done as real-time MIDI, complete with the inevitable slight variations that go with non-machine generated. But more and more, I use real hand drumming. One is a tambourine (proper, with a skin), the other a tambourine-sized hand drum. Played with fingers, hands, occasionally hard sticks. EQ fiddling does the rest. I need to make a cajun box. Drumming/percussion is a HUGE deficiency of mine.
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@burrsettles Mar 2022
i used to play a real drum kit in the basement. but then i got a dog that was freaked out, i got tired of retakes and comps, and never got a great sound out of the room and mics, anyway.
so i sold my kit, started playing with ezdrummer and eventually superior drummer, and picked up a used roland spd-30 which i use as an electronic kit with kick and hihat pedal triggers.
so these days it's a mix of playing live (and capturing midi), using loops, and editing the midi roll. i also have a modular synth rig and am getting increasingly interested in using that and other drum machines for rhythms.
it's a happy hybrid process.... -
@burrsettles Mar 2022
interestingly, i use logic as my main DAW but never tried the AI drummer. maybe i should give it a go...
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@splittybooms Mar 2022
Doing mainly electro stuff, I either bang out my drums using my midi keyboard, program various VST drum machines, or include both. Or of course use zecoop's stuff when he offers it during FAWM and 50/90 :)
There are many times that I wish I had a space at home to put a kit. I used to play back in high school jazz band and would love to add my own live stuff on tracks sometimes...and then fx it all up. I wonder if I can still stay in the pocket?
@timfatchen I'm curious how you got the Guitar Hero set working on PC. Is it easy to do? Are they pretty responsive?
Looks like they can be had for around $50 on ebay... No. No, I don't need it...i don't need it...i don't need it... -
@ambroise Mar 2022
I used a VST drum for the first time this year. Thank you FAWM !
I gave it a try with the first name that poped up with a tutorial in my native langage and a demo version. (Power Drum Kit 2) But I would welcome any advise on this one or any other.
Programing from scratch required more patience and more know-how-to-drum than I had in store. I just chose a groove for 7 bars and a fill to conclude it and it was enough for my needs. It may not be much for you but I'm already feeling achievment here. How long before it fells too limited for what I want to record ? Wait and see... -
@jtsteam Mar 2022
I didn't even know Logic's AI drummer could do that and I've just been having enormous fun playing with it. Thanks @siebass! I expect I'll be finding out more about what Logic can do more or less forever. Maybe I should read the manual some time. Meanwhile my DR-01S is serving me well...
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@siebass Mar 2022
@jtsteam no problem; it was literally worth the entire $200 purchase price of Logic Pro to me for the AI Drummer; nothing else out there like it, imho.
@burrsettles If you've already got Logic, I think you'd definitely enjoy at least checking it out. If you use the "Arrangement" (i.e. Form) markers to enter the structure of your song, it will play something different in each section that is energetically appropriate to that section (Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Intro, etc.) You can also tell it to "follow" another part, as @chinacat mentioned, so you can have it follow a simple MIDI drum part or bassline, or another drum part.
Simple tutorial on drummer here, not everything but gives you a good intro: https://youtu.be/XYCFqJSECgE
I watched that and even learned something at minute 8 so I don't have to copy out parts anymore to mix...so yeah, it's my fav thing. -
@timfatchen Mar 2022
@splittybooms http://pctutorialsonline.blogspot.com/2012/06/guitar-hero-world-tour-drums-on-pc.html It's not what directed me in, that's vanished from the internet, but it's the same setup. I have my Guitar Hero dongle then it's all straightforward using 360, loopbe1 (free virtual midicable) and in my case cakewalk but any standard DAW should work. Note the sensitivity of those pads is not particularly good. if you're trying to do a proper roll, half the hits wont' pick up. But it does for ordinary stuff. I would like a proper MIDI drum kit or even a single properly functioning pad, still...
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@slusk Mar 2022
Logic’s Drummer or a short manually programmed loop in EZ Drummer while composing. For EDM/dance stuff I sometimes play around with Audiomodern’s Playbeat plugin or recently Logic’s step sequencer with random steps for inspiration. Generally I think Logic’s Drummer is great for the included ”mainstream-ish” styles but it needs more AI ”drummers” for extended variety/genres (Think: world/ethnic music, jazz styles etc). Logic’s drummer developers need to take that old Apple mantra ”Think different” to heart.
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@tcelliott Mar 2022
DAW = Reaper
Drums = Superior Drummer 2 (more often than not) with lots of midi files I've purchased or gotten on line (mainly for free.)
I do have an Alesis eDrum set that will trigger midi but what little proficiency I ever had has completely deteriorated with lack of practice. I do have a crap craigslist set that I mic'd a couple of times. Sounds crappy, but perfectly suited to some post-punk songs I've done now and again.
