Want more critique? Put #ccwelcome in your tags
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@chroes Mar 2022
So here we are in March. We want to stick around for a bit longer, listen to more songs and maybe also get more input to our work. FAWM is a positive and friendly place that encourages creation, and it's important that it stays that way.
But maybe you are interested in some constructive critique on some of your songs. Maybe you feel stuck with one track and can't really put your finger on what's off.
I'd like to introduce the tag #ccwelcome (for "comments & critique welcome"). When you want to encourage a helpful discussion of one of your tracks, you can use the tag to receive input about it. People who want to participate can then focus on providing helpful feedback on this track.
This is not about forcing a specific kind of feedback, just to signal that for these tracks, it's okay to listen more critically and discuss more in depth. If you want, you can also add some lines in the liner notes about what kind of input would be most helpful for you. -
@seppo Mar 2022
Great idea. I'm always open for constructive criticism.
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@johnstaples Mar 2022
@chroes you do a great job of describing/promoting this! Personally, I don't see this writing challenge as a match for critiquing and would never want that for my rough drafts but I know some folks do want it.
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@zecoop Mar 2022
Unless people make it extraordinarily clear, I never give any criticism, constructive or otherwise. Actually, strike that - I keep it positive 100% of the time no matter what. I am just not into offering criticism of any kind, during FAWM. If I don't like something I move on without comment, although 99% of the time I find positive things to say about a song/lyric. This is just because it is *Writing* month, after all. It isn't mixing month or demo producing month or recording month. People can express the song they have written any way they want. Any demo, be it rough or polished, is a bonus and likely is never considered to be exactly what the writer intended. I let them work that out in their own way and in their own time.
Now, I think it is a great idea for people that DESIRE constructive criticism on their songs/lyrics to have a way to make that really clear. If they want it, have at it.
I just am not a person who desires AT ALL to give any, during the stressful, crazy month that FAWM is. There's enough pressure, in my mind, and you never know where people have been prior to FAWM or are currently in their own doubt and stress levels. Why would I want to potentially step on that and slow their creativity? Tag, checkbox or anything else, you won't see that type of comment from me, period.
That's just me... I'm the only person I can speak for. :) -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
bring me your grouchiest, pickiest, contrariest, most beligerent and tired and unamused self possible... and have at it.... rip and tear...please... someone will have something I can use, I'm sure. I came for the feedback, I stayed for the great music! :)
All kindnesses repayed with a return visit #tit4tat! -
@chroes Mar 2022
I absolutely agree. Fawm is a positive place and should stay that way! But now it's March, and since some of us keep working on our music and are glad for a bit of helpful input. So making is extra clear that in some free cases this kind of input is welcome is a way to marry both of these sites. :)
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@johnstaples Mar 2022
@zecoop I agree with you 1000%! I feel FAWM is the wrong place for critiques. I am here writing DRAFTS so why would I want critiques at this early stage of a song's creation? IMHO, a critique offered and accepted during such an early stage in a song's life is a co-write!
If I ever get serious about songwriting I plan to join a group like Taxi to get serious critiques from qualified songwriters. -
@zecoop Mar 2022
@chroes - Yep, definitely if people are looking for that, they should make it clear and a tag on the song does that nicely. :)
I know that this has come up in previous years (you may not have been around) and people have put statements on their profile pages to say something similar. But that means you would need to see it on their profile page, which you might not be on and might not see. A song tag achieves that pretty clearly.
I think I have a statement on my page, even... I pretty much just ignore people's suggestions and critiques of my songs, because it is *my* vision not anyone else's. ;) I do appreciate encouragement, as do most! FAWM is insanity... it really is, but the best kind. :) -
@coolparadiso Mar 2022
I critique professionally but never here. To do a true critique you need to know lots of key information about the writer, performer and there goals. Most people's idea of critiquing is simple opinion. It is tricky I appreciate some people do want some real feedback but I really think that's better done privately. Lastly I have found many people who ask don't really want it , they really just want nice things said. I think your suggestion is the closest best option but not one I would do.
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@zecoop Mar 2022
@coolparadiso - you nailed it. Critiques are most often just the opinion of the listener, which may or may not have any bearing on the writer’s intent. Whether or not that new opinion is received well depends on what the writer is looking to do with the song , how the writer is feeling about the song, how the writer is feeling that day, etc etc etc etc. Too many unknowns for me. I don’t ever go there.
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@psyt Mar 2022
I do want more critique, but my songs are finished, not drafts or works in progress that will or even might change based on feedback. Feedback might influence future songs I'll write though, but I feel this tag would be more appropriate to people who want it and do not consider their songs "finished".
Also, on the other hand from wanting more critique, I have to admit I'm not masochistic about it, and I'm kinda deluding myself that all critique will be positive, because all of the feedback I received in recent years really has been positive (and not only at FAWM and 5090 at that). -
@chroes Mar 2022
I hear you.
I just... Well. I would really like to improve. In songwriting, arrangement, performance, mastering. I really don't know any other place where so many musicians meet with a positive mindset, and I thought that maybe there was enough space to also explore this part of music making. In March, when songwriting is done.
Do you have a different suggestion? Where should I turn? -
@psyt Mar 2022
The more you do it, the better you get at it.
Comparative listening with the stuff you love also helps, and there's plenty of content on youtube that can help you improve. :) -
@zecoop Mar 2022
@chroes - It's all about the communication, as with so many things in FAWM (collabs, etc). A tag like you suggested is a good thing, as is the statement on the profile page, etc. But, FAWM is an intense, potentially stressful sprint. The focus is usually not on the production, even with people like me, who put up finished 'sounding' songs due to how they record/write. Mine sound like big productions, but *always* have tweaks and re-mixes later (based on how I am hearing them in my head). There is no perfect right all the time answer! :)
Most people I have talked to that do music more seriously than a hobby, lean towards things like Taxi and even other song writing competitions. Song Fight, Nur Ein, etc will get more of a critique for the songs entered. That is just not the focus here. The focus of FAWM s to encourage people to write songs - period. That doesn't mean that some people don't like to get or want to get critiques, but it isn't the point here. Everyone's *point* is different here - it depends on the person. Some want to write better songs. Some want to write more songs. Some want to write ANY songs. With so many different angles, it is hard to know how a critique will come across at FAWM. Generally, that is done in other places, like the competitions mentioned or organizations like Taxi, etc. :) -
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@wolfkier Mar 2022
@coolparadiso if someone asks for input.critique.whatyouwannacallit. and didn't really want it at all, and they get a dose, even quarter throttle, they won't ask for it any more. LOL. Does my butt look fat in this dress? hehehe.... oh, I've fallen into that trap before.
And indeed, @zecoop they are opinions often, with so many variables on both sides of the exchange, but I've learned more about music making and arranging over the decades from drummers I've worked with than any other musician, or teacher, however "virtuoso".
In my case my ears are always open for improvments, and in even the most fluffy wrap up, there's a hint of what isn't working, and indeed what is ringing people's bells. .
In a professional world that any song makes it to say, radio ready, is an absolute wonder. Countless "opinions" , including tone deaf executives, craft the piece opinion by painful opinion. From first draft to final master.
Friends will put up with you if your breath stinks, true friends will tell you it does.
And my moto has always been "all ears hear all things" . I try to listen, and encourage that input. yrmv, but I'm sure, I'm better at my craft for the kind nudges, prods, and bodyslams from the very talented strangers/friends I've made over the 12+ years I've played in this feild of dreams we call FAWMing. -
@zecoop Mar 2022
@wolfkier - "if someone asks for input.critique.whatyouwannacallit. and didn't really want it at all..." :D
Yep!! That is so true and yet another push towards communication!!! You have to be honest in your communication about what you want. Don't ask for critique if you fall apart upon hearing that it wasn't perfect. Every song has something that can be improved. Every songwriter has something they can improve. -
@coolparadiso Mar 2022
I hear all you say @wolfkier and respect your views. It does work for some people. My experience though is I have seen far more people hurt by random critiquing than those that take it well. I just feel that Fawm of all places, one that encourages creativity and welcomes new people so openly, might not be the best vehicle for critiquing as important as critiquing is! And yeah your example of “do i look good in this” is a perfect example! Of criticism not really wanted Ha ha but I'm too old and wise to fall for that anymore :-)
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@wolfkier Mar 2022
@coolparadiso clearly it's a matter of careful what you wish for and take with a grain of salt what you get. :)
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@johnstaples Mar 2022
@coolparadiso you are spot on correct!
FAWM is the community it is because it is NOT focused on critiquing, rather, it IS focused on writing and encouragement. FAWM is the epitomy of what our moms taught us "if you can't say something nice..."!
I completely understand how new FAWMers come here and are blown away at what a wonderful, kind and encouraging community this is. And they think, "wow, such a nice place. maybe this community could also provide x, y or z!" I get it because I experienced it first 10 years ago and continue to be amazed by this community.
But, when you start adding cold, hard critiquing to the mix FAWM becomes something different. After receiving criticism I think many people tend to be discouraged, not encouraged. At least this is my experience.
And I know I'm repeating myself but we are NOT trying to write finished songs here! We are trying to write drafts. Write rough pieces. Write something. And then write another. And another.
When you get a comment like "your song is pretty good, but..." it might provide you with a little useful info (or it might not) but I feel it discourages you from starting that next song.
I can honestly say it always bugs me when someone leaves me a comment that includes their opinion on where I should take my rough draft! "Needs a bridge"? No, if I wanted a bridge I would have included one! :) "The vocals are too loud in the mix"? No, the vocals are exactly where I want them in the mix. :) And on and on!
But with all that said, I support folks adding tags that indicate they would like critiques. FYI, this has been discussed and tried almost every year I have been around here and it never seems to go anywhere! Even when someone asks for critiques FAWMers usually instead look for something encouraging to say! -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
And indeed to a fatigued production ear, vox could come up, guitar could come down should be welcome with open arms... and shouldn't make you give up songwriting or production and take up golf.
The deaf in one ear mailman with no musical experience and a bitter hatred for musicians and their dogs (LOL) could tell you that and you'd be a fool not to listen and tweak. -
@johncrossman Mar 2022
@chroes - I'll confirm that this is still a good idea: to clearly communicate that you desire constructive criticism in the places people will look. You may not get much on FAWM post-Feb, but kudos to you for asking. And the people reading this discussion might go give you some.
As of now, 62 songs have this tag so it's already working. FAWM on! -
@johnstaples Mar 2022
@wolfkier indeed but no one is saying critiques are not good, welcome, important! However I don't want my hairdresser to start working on my beautiful locks while I am still in the shower! A time and a place for everything!
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@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@chroes The tag is a good idea... Though I rarely read tags, but if its put in the liner notes as well I have no problem telling someone what I think. Even critiquing others work can be a great way to find out and quantify for yourself what you like about music and a way to get better at expressing your own work. As was already mentioned though it can help to be specific about what you exactly want critiqued, that also doesn't always have to be the case, as someone with some new ears might hear something you hadn't even thought of.
FAWM is different for everyone, some just want to put up quick demos to work on later and don't want feedback, others don't have any interest in "refining" things. Every time this gets brought up it turns into a discussion of what FAWM is... well things aren't the same for everyone, and nobody is forcing anyone to add a critique welcome tag. -
@calfman8803 Mar 2022
This should be a checkbox in your profile and a note added to your songs (or maybe a way to make it song-to-song). Some people just want the positive reinforcement. Some people want the raw feedback on what is not working.
I try to leave only positive feedback on things because I think staying positive can be a lot of the battle but frequently have a comment I am suppressing like "that keyboard tone sounds a bit stock, maybe punch it up with some reverb?"
Would be nice to have an official "open to critique" flag available that made it obvious what type of feedback people were looking for.
Edit: One last note: I think there would also need to be some etiquette around this as well, this shouldn't be a "be a jerk to me" flag or just for comments like "that guitar part sucks" it should be _constructive criticism_ and the difference between "only tell me what you liked" and "feel free to tell me where I could improve" -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
@calfman8803 We could call it the "both barrels button" LOL!
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@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@calfman8803 I think that would be a good idea for the great fawm rewrite of whenever. @wolfkier The both barrels, or careful what you wish for button :D
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@coolparadiso Mar 2022
Maybe there is also a different view on what critiquing actually is, i get very small comments, like it was hard to hear vox or something like that. i really don't see those minor things as an issue nor are they critiquing to me they are a personal observations. critiquing is a much more encompassing thing! Its difficult of course knowing where the line is drawn. My problem is that real critiquing is harsh you really get into the gritty and i don’t think as my mum used to say “you air your dirty laundry in public”. When i have seen this done before, it ends up in debates with people defending their positions, oh i wanted the reverb that high because…. And back and forward it goes! I do hope its used properly because there are obviously some people that want this ,small number that they are (8 so far) and Fawm does try to be all things to all people. But i think i would be wrong not to highlight that critiquing in my experience has been the death knell for so many online songwriting groups.
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@wolfkier Mar 2022
@coolparadiso I don't think anyone is expecting a critical analytical essay complete with footnotes, real world examples, and a resume of the reviewer's qualification to pick nits, nor are they encouraging trolls to wirte, and I quote "your song sucks, delete your account and die"..I'm sure no one has the time during challenges for the former and I'm sure no FAWMer here in good will would have the tolerance for the latter.
And yes, "defending of position" catfights may well errupt...the "didn't really want it" (as well as the "i"m a genius, heed my sageocity) egos would be bruised.... pointless wastes of time that kind of exchange is...
For those cynical of the positivity that many here generously bring, maybe we should have a button that says "please don't listen to or comment on my song unless you have some useful critical input to give me." hehehe....
Actually I'm still amazed that anyone would take 2.50seconds to listen to something of mine, I spend hours fretting and working to make those seconds worth their kindness, and I'm grateful when they do, whatever type of comment they choose to make. If I can point their attention to add one extra sentence to "help make it better, please" then I will. And enough people are kind enough to do that, thank goodness, over and over, again across the years. It helps me, and in a strange way helps them consider what a song is, what a song can/can't, should/shouldn't do, how it's working, what they might tweak or fix or add or delete. This place is a wealth of talent and potential to learn from collected and collective experience.
I'm old enough to remember lenghty forum discussions admonishing the "it's crap but I'll post it anyway *shrug*" liner notes. :)
"Careful what you wish for" is really the bottom line here. Add to that, "Be grateful that such an amazing welcoming tolerant place exists". -
@dock Mar 2022
I appreciate that FAWM has kept things positive and friendly so people will feel welcome to post songs. And I've learned so much from listening to the wonderful music posted in FAWM. New ideas for tracking, mixing, instrumentation, lyrics, and more. I would love to hear some constructive feedback.
Some of the people here obviously have a lot of experience at writing and recording. It would be fantastic to be able to up my game by learning from them.
I also like the idea that there should be a separate track/channel/hashtag to indicate when that kind of feedback is wanted. Wouldn't want to scare off some of the budding talent that has found a safe home here at FAWM. -
@coolparadiso Mar 2022
As I've said before @wolfkier i believe one of the great things about Fawm is its tolerance of different requirements but i think it would be irresponsible not to share my disastrous experiences with critiquing! What i hope is that forewarned is forearmed . If people are cognizant of the pitfalls maybe no one will fall down one.
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@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@coolparadiso all very valid points and reservations, and why I'm always very hesitant of songwriting/critique groups... online ones anyway. The only ones that seem to last turn into circle jerks of conformative group-think, that or pissing contests... or someone just trying to sell you something :D
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@wolfkier Mar 2022
@coolparadiso Please don't think I'm disagreeing with you. Your contributions to the songwriting community inside and outside challenges is outstanding. Deep respect for the love you give to the craft. I'm trying to add to the conversation . Clearly fawm is not the place for your strict definition of blunt harsh thorough critique. It is certainly a place to develop relationships that allow that to happen in private. It's also a place where that can happen bit by bit from multiple kind "tips" or hints through comments. I'm sure there are many encouraging mentor relationships that have grown from it over the years too, directly or through osmosis/ example.
For sure there are examples of places that have suffered because criticism has become caustic or well intended critique has pulled triggers and ruined everything. Or the input came from the overzealous and /or under qualified. That's life.
And your experience and warning is warranted, understood, and valuable to the discussion in this thread.
This is a community that gives and nurtures and for those who seek it, there are members with experience who might, generously and beneficially (publicly or privately) give what the proposed hashtag kindly asks for: "constructive criticism welcome" -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
and for the tldr crew, what @dzdandcunfsd said. Half of everything I learned this past year came from his scathing criticisms, the other half came from trying to analyze and understand whatthehellkindamusic he pumps out of that lab of his.... LOL. Luv ya, Deez!
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@coolparadiso Mar 2022
My last point on this issue is that the hard nosed battle wearied people like @wolfkier and myself just need to be cognizant of the danger critiquing can have on the more vulnerable. Hopefully the suggested idea will quarantine the issue and it will not spread elsewhere.
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@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@wolfkier hehe... Imagine some poor "serious songwriter" types thinking I wanted to turn something into a top-40 pop radio hit, and not being able to offer any kind of critique that strays from formulaic advice at best. That's usually my experience with critique groups, and why I think especially and ONLY when its asked for, and someone is willing to give the time to do it this community is wonderfully suited for it. Tons of people here that have advice on how to best serve the song, not turn it into something it was never meant to be.
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@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@coolparadiso It spreading to places where it was not asked for is a very valid concern. I would fully agree.
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@wolfkier Mar 2022
@coolparadiso Then we all agree.
@dzdandcunfsd Imagine! LOL.
Pregnant banjos through fender amps FTW! -
@johnstaples Mar 2022
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@chroes Mar 2022
I don't share that fear of this "spreading" anywhere. It's March. The few handfuls of people still active are here because they love fawm. It's one single hashtag, and only very, very few people have used it so far.
I see the bitterness that hides behind the sarcasm. I understand (a bit). Yet music means different things for different people. Some of you enjoy wonderful artist communities in real life. I've been alone most of the time and have very few connections to other musicians. I am truly interested in getting better on many levels as I outlined. And I am truly interested in constructive (!) criticism. I fail to see the constructiveness of many of the examples given here. My goal, to do it all, to write, perform, record, polish differs from yours. That's legit! I do this because I have to, and because it brings me fun. Learning new stuff is fun for me. Getting better at something creative makes me happy.
I get it. You're weary. I'm new-ish here. I don't know the history, not of this site, not of you as a person. I'm sorry if my suggestion struck a wrong chord like it seems to have done, it was not my intention. My perspective simply differs from yours, as does my experience.
As I said - I thought maybe March could leave enough room to explore this for the few people interested. Seems I was wrong. -
@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@chroes No worries! This topic just seems to get brought up every now and then and even discussing it almost always seems to turn ugly for reasons I can't understand.
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@chroes Mar 2022
@dzdandcunfsd I gather that people were hurt in the past, and badly. I'm sorry that that is the case, and I can relate. I too have many areas I would be sensitive about criticism and would never think about encouraging it.
I think I got a wrong impression about the community. The comments are super encouraging and often helpful. I thought we could maybe build on that, maybe in March. There are people here who want to stick around for longer. Providing room for different needs and ideas could make have made this interesting for different people with different goals. Instead, I seem to have brought out bitter memories and "we've been there, kid, it won't work!" responses. Okay. I'll keep my mouth shut and stay in line then. -
@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@chroes nah... please don't do that. It makes the world a less interesting place.
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@majormajormajormajor Mar 2022
I've often wondered at a better way to convey this- this is much better than the note at the top of my profile that asks for it.
Although I love the community here and regard the safe space we create together as precious beyond words and of primary importance, I also went to design school and got so much out of iterating ideas and regular class critiques of ideas in progress as a corrective measure. It does take some getting used to, and a healthy dose of respect for creative work on the part of the critic.
Given that this respect takes some teaching as well as the right mindset to receive it, I think it makes sense to avoid generally, but I am certainly used to critique and well aware of my own talents and appreciate the direction that can come from others
Even when critiquing I subscribe to the "2 glows and a grow" format, with the critique sandwiched in the middle. You should always be able to find a pair of things done well, even in the most colossal garbage fire, and would argue that it teaches you as much about the chosen form and creativity in general as the act of creation does.
Even in limiting myself to just praise, I never find a need to lie or misrepresent what I think. There is always something to encourage, and I try to be as specific as I can. The only limiting factor is the time required to provide thoughtful praise. I don't often make it into the rarefied air, volume wise, but I do try to be reciprocal- still getting there for this year currently. -
@coolparadiso Mar 2022
@chroes please know @wolfkier and @dzdandcunfsd and I have listened shared and chatted for a long time and there is no animosity between us. This topic has got heated a few times in the past but not us we are pretty civilized :-) I just wave the warning flag on this as i have seen it creeping in (i have had at least 6 critiques this year yet my profile specifically says i don't want them). Of course it is possible the tag may in fact help keep them away from mainstream. Better that issues like this are raised and discussed in my opinion. Perhaps i need a CNW tag ha ha!
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@majormajormajormajor Mar 2022
In fact, in adding the tag to several songs, it occurred to me that it also helps to focus/direct thoughtful attention to songs I'm invested in, rather than the 'fun' experiments I expect to leave where they are.
It really ought to remain the exception, but in being very intentional about it I think there's room. -
@chroes Mar 2022
@coolparadiso hmm. Interesting. You see, when I find a song, I don't first stop by the artist profile and read everything that's there. I want to enjoy the music. So maybe there's something we can learn here? Maybe there's an opportunity here? Up until now I have been doubtful if some kind of tag or checkbox for regular fawm (February, not March) could be helpful. I thought bringing up the possibility of critique could encourage it, like you and others have voiced. But if it's already happening, then maybe it should be made transparent. And I don't mean in an obscure way, but maybe by a color-coded flag of some kind. That's defaulting to "be nice, be encouraging, be awesome". Or something.
Others have brought up they wish just a sourdough kind of critique, like on songwriting, lyrics or vocals. Maybe that could be helpful.
I can see that people fear this could change fawm for the worse, that it could start bleeding into the rest of the project. Yet, as that seems to be already happening... I don't know. Probably there are no easy answers. -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
@chroes the only "line" here is when people are rude/hateful. And that happens very seldom, and is dealt with quicker than you can imagine. You took an initiative, you felt comfortable enough to do that, there are, right now 78 songs with your hashtag #ccwelcome , with some absolutely crazy talented people adopting it. If you're offended with any such input that comes your way, get on with it. If you don't agree, get on with it and use what works from another source
if it's useful and you grew, God bless! Presume the input was intended in a good natured way and maybe even say thank you or return the visit/listen with respect for what that person may or may not want. Humility goes a long way and sometimes frenemies are your best advancers.
I'd like to think that the worse case warnings by the crusy vets here are for precuation, They're saying "please be careful" and "careful what you wish for". and "caution slippery when wet". :)
But I, personaly think you have a lovely, respectfully suggested, good natured idea to encourage people to invite input ONLY when asked for and a hashtag allows that to happen in exchanges between knowing players. Maybe even privately as you get to make life long pals here.
I wouldn't that expect every comment is going to give you what you asked for, but some might do so, some might be encouraging it's all good.
And @majormajormajormajor "2 glows and a grow" philosophy is more sage input to the idea.
I'm willing to bet in future years something like your hashtag will be a "draw" for people with the skills, time and enthusiasm who are looking to make a difference to advance the craft of those who want or need it,
put it in your profile too, as some have done for years, and in your liner notes as well.
If your tough enough to ask for it, you should be tough enough to accept it, in any form, gracefully.
Songwriters write songs, they have no choice, that's what they do. Good songwrites, I think, strive to become better songwriters, -
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@wolfkier Mar 2022
@coolparadiso I take umbrage at being called "civilized"! Proposterous! I have glowing references to the contrary! :)
And @dzdandcunfsd .... well... um... LOL. -
@coolparadiso Mar 2022
Yeah @wolfkier i could be wrong about that ha ha
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@dzdandcunfsd Mar 2022
@wolfkier Speak for yourself... I'm highly civilized! I even use cutlery to eat with now and again LOL.
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@bithprod Mar 2022
I applaud the initiative, but I'm not sure I'd personally like to participate. Music is extremely subjective, so all I can do is offer my own views and tell you what my ears (/eyes/mind) would prefer... and this comes from an experienced writing consultant, reviewer and editor! What would you have said to a young Bob Dylan? "Really good songwriting, but you can't sing for sh*t, and you play the guitar and harmonica like a kid (literally, not the human kind)."
From a songwriter perspective, I'd have to be very specific as to what parts of the song I'd like critiqued. I don't need anyone to tell me my vocals suck, or that the mix is unbalanced. So, perhaps it's just too much work to prepare a song for critiques, and that this is a better idea for 50/90.
I'd like to share an example of the feedback I received on one of our albums from 2021. My skills as a "producer" are simply underwhelming, but at least this time we had brought in a skilled vocalist, and his harmonies were simply beautiful. However, the first feedback we received was something like: "The instrumentation and mixing is superb, but I'm not a big fan of the singer." Right. -
@ayehahmur Mar 2022
The way I think requesting critique comments can work within the overall lovely supportive ethos we have in FAWM is when the poster is specific about what they want to hear. Even with a tag, leaving it open for any and all constructive criticism can easily get overwhelming and swamp the positive vibes with not so positive ones. Whereas, if you can think of something specific to ask about the song - does the structure work, does it need that 7th chorus, does the falsetto work or should I stick to my normal register? - then that can focus things a bit better, and be of more direct use to you.
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@berni1954 Mar 2022
I have often suggested an alternative word or line and have always had a thank you for it. This is especially true of those who write in English, but are not native speakers. I do this on the clear understanding that if the person thinks my suggestion is crap then they can just ignore it.
I used to have a good friend who did the same service to all my latest songs. He would point pout a line that needed work and I always appreciated his feedback. As the creator has the final word, I don't see there being a problem, if your suggestion is seen as such, rather than a command. -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
So much accumulated wisdom and thoughtful responses here!
Sometimes it does help to add: I"m having trouble with this aspect, anyone got a solution?
Sometimes you might come across a song and think well this is great stuff, but "I hope you don't mind me saying but.... xyz is distracting" or "did you mean to have one second of clipping distortion at 2.15? Or there's a ton of essing in the vocal, I've got this plug in that might help if you need it. Little things that the poster might have just missed in the rush.
It's a great honor, I think, if a song is "adopted" by someone and they care enough to help it grow. It means, the song has touched someone and they want it to be all it can be.
"All ears here all things", I always say, and "it takes a village to raise a song".
And @dzdandcunfsd .. It cracks me up when people do that..... :)
