Fast Vs Slow Creativity
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@dukongp100 Feb 2022
Another thread got me thinking about this.
Some musicians, artists, and other creatives/businesspersons, take a very long time to create their works.
There was a person(s) who decided to create slowly, maybe a piece of art over one month, and taking as long as possible to get it how one wants it. They have worked on this ideal at their website, not sure who they are now. But a challenge came from it ( Slowvember I think ? )
Are there any tortoise creators out there, who take their time in creating their other works away from the fast pace of FAWM/5090 ? How does this work for you ?
Basically the slothcore philosophy in real life heh heh :)) -
@mardeycranbleson Feb 2022
i tried taking my time this past year but my results weren't any better (and actually probably worse) than things that take me an hour to do.
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@tcelliott Feb 2022
I need to create very fast. But I also need to take the time to go back and polish a bit more than I do. Spend some time actually fixing the rough meter and stray syllable etc., I don't do that much.
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@helenseviltwin Feb 2022
Nah - stuff that doesn't materialise immediately tends to be inferior to stuff that is just *there* for me. Yes, finessing often helps, but if I have an idea and don't realise it immediately, it's usually because it's just not that great an idea. There are, of course, exceptions, but, for me, that's mostly true.
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@davidbreslin101 Feb 2022
I seem to have both quick-twitch and slow-twitch creativity. Some songs / pieces I can finish in an hour or two, when my brain just grabs the idea and runs with it. I've had to get good at imagining chords, for when songs like this strike when I'm at work.
But I also have a vast compost heap where ideas ferment for days, weeks, months, years, and in a couple of cases, decades. Some I take out and tinker with at intervals; others just brew down there until they explode back to the surface one day.
Some of my FAWM songs actually go through the compost heap a bit. I generally work on several song ideas at once over a period of days, and the solutions to problems often come while a song has been set aside for a while. -
@erikleppen Feb 2022
This is an interesting topic. I think the "slow idea" idea works for me for game development. For instrumental songs, I think the "quick ideas" work better for me. If I don't know how to continue with a piece, often it will never come to me and I can almost-surely add it to my "will probably not finish" list... For lyrics I think it's somewhere in between, sometimes ideas "form" over a longer period but also sometimes it quickly comes together.
So that makes me think, maybe the different "paces" work best for different kinds of creative outlets. -
@nadine Feb 2022
I'm fast with nearly everything I do. But I decided to slow down my process of mixing to get better results. My ears needs rest and I feel like my arrangements are better when I the ideas settle a bit. Write fast, mix slow. 1 month of songwriting - 11 to mix and produce. But there are also ideas that took 5-15 years to finish.
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@klaus Feb 2022
I can write music to lyrics pretty fast. In the early years, I would sometimes surprise the lyricist with a demo the next day. But writing my own lyrics to a melody is definitely always a slow job. And even with melodies they usually get a little better with time.
This year I took it slow and I noticed an improvement in mixing and I sang more harmonies. I'm quite happy with all six of them ( the last one is coming soon ). No fillers there.
It took Leonard Cohen 15 years to write Hallelujah. That's a bit too long for me. :) -
@dukongp100 Feb 2022
Interesting how different ppls experiences are with the slower approach. I spent more time on individual songs than usual and got a better product, the quality went up but the quantity was less than usual.
The average time an album Was released after another was 3 years for a few of my fav bands. It’s more singles based in the industry from what I can gather now. Makes me wonder about Adele how she was prolific in her touring and recording, then had a break. Breaks are inevitable and needed eventually, though I wonder if the fast pace burned her out ? As opposed to a regular 3 year album release over two decades which maybe would be more relaxed and not burnout inducing ? Food for thought… maybe, -
@timfatchen Feb 2022
The initial idea and creation for me goes from very fast (say, a period of a day or two) to almost instant (I set at the keyboard, do a oneshot and voila, there it is.) But getting it right, ah now: most of the important music for the opera "Ngurunderi Inspirations" (search on youtube if you want) was generated in the ninety days of a single 50/90 challenge, and the remainder in a subsequent FAWM. But to get that 2,5 hours of music right, orchestrated, and to the point of performance took another, um, eight years. Now, what was that about slothcore?
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@andygetch Feb 2022
Good thread! Over ten plus years I have been writing songs and painting and I guess I do use both approaches.
My painting has gotten slower over time. More attention to detail while at the same time leaning more towards the abstract. Maybe because I have limited space. I needed to declutter and let go of a lot of the old experiments and learning pieces because I simply do not have room to display them. Most of the better ones are in other locations.
My songwriting tends to be in spurts where I spend no more than a few hours doing the actual writing. Which comes in handy in timed songwriting challenges. After this FAWM I may start playing a few of the songs I have posted, because I only have so much space in my brain to remember how to play them and only so much time to play them. The ones I practice or play out usually may evolve. I mostly am a lyrics-first writer and mostly the lyrics do not change significantly as they are the reason I picked the song to continue playing (above others) in the first place. I often make changes in the music since in a lot of cases the music that gets posted with my songs is a general placeholder and is not notated beyond the chords. I may completely forget the melody and some of the song elements or how I play them on guitar and the music may evolve that way. -
@jamkar Feb 2022
I am a fast writerslow producer artist. I have had song ideas from the 80’s that I finished in recent times.
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@dukongp100 Mar 2022
wow thats interesting, defo long game creating there. i bet a quite a few ppl have old projects they finish years or even decades later ?
slower painting is an interesting approach too, i find. this i would imagine has a more zen effect on the mind, to concentrate and focus on the moment -
@kiffa Mar 2022
I do almost everything slowly! If I don't write the lyrics for a song in one sitting (which almost never happens), it's incredibly difficult for me to pick back up where I left off and fill in the blanks later. Case in point: my submissions for FAWM 2021, which I uploaded as instrumental demos, because the lyrics were unfinished-- and a year later, they still are lol. I ran into this problem with my second and third songs this year; both were songs on which I had an initial burst of creativity, then hit a stone wall, and had to pick up again later. It took me about 2 weeks to finish off the lyrics for the 2 songs, but I did it.
On top of that, I'm just as slow at recording, due to general technical cluelessness. Add to that what I am almost certain is a (admittedly undiagnosed) case of ADD, and it's a wonder that I manage to get anything done at all. If something can distract me, it will-- I mean, I have got to be the only FAWMer who wasted five or six nights of February working on a 2000-piece jigsaw puzzle... which very frustratingly ended up having a piece missing LOL.
I consider the fact that I finished 4 songs this time around a huge victory. -
@frenchcricket Mar 2022
Write fast, edit slow! That’s my usual methodology. But the slow edit usually has to be sacrificed in February
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@greengrassgirl Mar 2022
I do much better when I take my time. Generally, the more I revise a lyric, the better it gets. I can often whip out a good start on a lyric while I'm brushing my teeth, but it could take weeks before it's really in shape. I prefer to think about things, or do something completely outside the music world, and let ideas happen to me when I'm not trying. It's sort of "self-communication" that speaks up when there is a lull.
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@scottlake Mar 2022
I spent more time reading Daniel Kahneman’s “Thinking Fast and Slow” than I did songwriting in February. I also designed and drew and released my first t shirt in February and have 10 sales. I also convinced one of my favorite FAWMers over the years to write and record music to a set of my lyrics. It’s quite possible this may have been my last FAWM. At 54 years old I preferred watching the Olympics and doing crossword puzzles and writing lyrics while doing those things. I didn’t even post several sets of lyrics. Winning the 14 lost its shine for me I guess. I valued sleep over getting comments.
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@sherrylynnlee Mar 2022
I do (and need) both. Most pieces I write for briefs I churn out in a day or two. Some of the ones I write for me, I tweak for a long time.
Science suggest that if you focus on quantity, quality will improve automatically. But I do also believe that this only gets you 90-95% there. If you want that extra 5-10%, spending a bit more time editing is probably needed for those of us who aren't geniuses. I'll usually spend time tightening up lyrics, creating more ear candy, making the melody catchier, etc. if I don't have to rush it. -
@wolfkier Mar 2022
For me, songs scream at me for attention, they want to be given real form. Then they scream at me for the things I missed in my haste to grab. Then they scream at me for fine detail to make them presentable speak. But I'm convinced, after 1600+ of them that they have a life and a real aspiration built in and needy. I'm just the song catcher who may or may not have what it takes to make them whole for a listener. They exist in final form in the ether, like any new friend that I might randomly encounter and be drawn to. so the first part is fast, the important bits i get, and to the exent of my ability/time/resources at the time to capture.
I'm working on a group of the best 100 from 16 or so years right now (see my profile) and as I work my way through, again and again, some are from the begining, each "special" song says, when the time come, you got it, I fully exist. I taught you what you needed to know to complete me. And you slowly worked it out. What took you so damn long? Or thanks for the nurturing
And that is just like any relationship with any being I've ever "got to know" throughout my life.
They live. They haunt. some of them nag and demand. Some are happy to just have been caught for long enough to be given an audible voice. -
@rshakesp Mar 2022
I find the creation is fast - but that the polish (and understanding of whether you have a good song or not) comes more slowly. I write most of my stuff for live performance so it tends to get a decent amount of practice - and for me it’s this process of practice that bumps the rough edges off songs - those awkward transitions get tidied up, those unsure melodic twists get firmed up - the familiarity with the core of the song allows you to start to take liberties that add interest. For me all this happens only through repeated practice and performance.
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@dukongp100 Mar 2022
Some great points here in this thread. I deffo didn’t want to force out 14 songs this time, so worked more on what I had at the time. And the create fast edit slow thing appeals to me too. Means the songs can evolve and be worked on over time with additions to build up a complete piece. Revising the lyrics is also a great approach, I. Find myself defo veering towards the lyrics revision camp now, I can see the value in it now to create better works.
I saw yesterday a question on a trivia show, the answer was Neil Young, and the question was related to one of his albums taking 40 years to release, or some sort, while there would have been obstacles in the way, I feel even if not, the time taken to work on an album with 40 years, there could be some interesting developments made during that time! -
@guatecoop Mar 2022
Same here with write fast, edit slow....I find that when I write slowly, I typically am forcing something that won't be that great in the end. However, that depends on the type of song and my definition of slow. Acceptably slow for me is about a week--when the spark is still there. Once I get farther than that I feel like I am polishing a turd.
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@gubna Mar 2022
This year aside, cause it was a challenge for me, in past years for FAWM and other times I've spent short periods of time working on music, I tend to get more done in that time that I feel proud of. While the approach to say, chipping away and polishing a marble statue for a year to make it "perfect", works, I tend to feel I get more work done in shorter, focused periods of time.
But, I'm still learning how to write songs. -
@dukongp100 Mar 2022
an interesting point, that short term creation seems to produce more results for some, and long term produces some results in some areas such as production.
i feel im more siding on doing less lately. why? i feel ive burned myself out too much over the last few years. part of my meditative practice is to do things slowly, and spend less energy on things.
i want to create less, but make those songs i do, matter more. so less output but more quality. id like to find the balance.
it works out around roughly a song every two days here, and i know next time to incorporate that way of thinking. same with 5090 prequel, i wish to participate with the idea that 50 songs may not be achieved, but least the music is sligtly up in quality. if one has the energy and has worked out how to do quick creation without burning out too hard, id like to know if there are any points, tips, that can help ??
