Skirmish thread naming convention
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@ianuarius Feb 2022
If I look at the Skirmishes forum, it feels very confusing and unnecessarily complicated to me.
Could we as a community please move to some other naming convention? Such as....
CURRENT:
SuperSkirmish Feb 26 SS022622h 4pm GMT (8am PST, 11am EST)
NEW:
SuperSkirmish 26H, 4pm GMT
In the current one...
1. It says SuperSkirmish and SS, which mean the same thing. The other is there just to make it longer and harder to read.
2. It says Feb and 02, both of which mean the same thing and are totally useless, because of course it's February. They're there just to make it longer and harder to read.
3. It says 22, which refers to 2022, which is redundant, because of course it's the current year. There aren't any threads from any other year on the forum.
4. All the different timezones just make it longer. There's no MY timezone there! But with GMT I somehow survive.
Just... please?
EDIT: It was brought to my attention that on 50/90, you'd need a way to differentiate between months. So, maybe on 50/90 there also needs to be a month in the thread title. Not on FAWM though. There's no reason why they need to be the same. -
@elesimo Feb 2022
What's the "h" for?
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@ianuarius Feb 2022
There are often multiple skirmishes each day, so you need a code to differentiate them from each other.
Actually, the letter is the only thing I'm often looking for, and with the current system, it still takes me good five seconds instead of just a glance like it should. -
@elesimo Feb 2022
Ah, true, I forgot! Thanks!
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@kenmattsson Feb 2022
I agree with @ianuarius on this one. Also, there hasn't been consistency even with the current format. I'm seeing lots of different ones here.
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@carleybaer Feb 2022
I agree as well. I scan for the pertinent info (namely time and date) but my eyes glaze over at the long string of letters and numbers. I barely register them except when it's time to copy/paste for the tags. It might be a pipe dream to achieve 100% consistency given how many cooks are stirring the soup, but it's a noble aim.
That said, I do enjoy having my specific time zone accommodated (entitled American!) but I can adjust to whatever is decided. A bit of time zone math never hurt anyone. -
@tcelliott Feb 2022
Originally, we were putting together a long list of all the skirmishes which is why months and years were included. But I gave that up many years ago so.... I also dislike the current system. I think, though, you're gonna have to suggest this on January 31st rather than February 26th in order for it to have a chance to take hold.
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@sw1n3flu Feb 2022
Yeah I was gonna say this would be great for 2023! Let’s revise it then?
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@chroes Feb 2022
I agree. It's hard to find the skirmish you're looking for at the moment, I often need to search the page via the search function to find it.
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@mardeycranbleson Feb 2022
Yes god I hate it. I tied to avoid it when I was coordinating a few.
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@kathym Feb 2022
The code assignment process is a bit complex, but when there is a superskirmish, there has to be a way to identify each one.
BACKGROUND:
The need for the coding became necessary in order to differentiate them from other one-off skirmishes that are either regularly scheduled or come in as a last minute opportunity.
I've been doing these since they were first implemented. Over the years, people have asked to have various information included in order to be able to find them, so things were added in one at a time to accommodate those requests.
THE GOOD NEWS:
The discussion on this can continue beyond the end of February because the forums will still be available for discussion for many months. We just can't post any new songs.
SUGGESTION:
Though it's true that ALL of them are in Feb, I think it just makes it easier on the eyes when scanning to find a specific SS. During 5090, there are several months, so there is a clear reason to include the month.
Perhaps a forum title as basic as SSFeb26A, SSFeb26B, etc. might be basic enough to tag the songs so people can locate the skirmish and the songs. Because the website is reset each year, we don't need to include the year in the code.
THEN ... the Master Host of the SS can just put the assigned times within the master listing for each SS.
THEN ... the individual skirmish host copies/pastes in the details of that individual skirmish using the standard format that includes the date/time zones/tags/prompts.
People who want to skirmish can first refer to the master listing in that forum to find SS that fit into their schedule AND they can locate specific skirmishes more easily in the forums. -
@ianuarius Feb 2022
@kathym I think the code could be in the thread itself and not the title because it doesn't serve any purpose in the title. It's a code for machines while people browse the forum.
Making it easy for people to navigate should be priority number one. I can appreciate the fact that info must be archived in a logical way, but what you are essentially talking about is metadata.
The thread title is NOT the right place for metadata. -
@ajna1960 Feb 2022
Please note: not everybody's brain works in the same way. What one person finds hard to read/search etc, is easy for another, and vice versa. Also dictating what is or is not the right thing to do, is not a discussion :)
Taking openly and with understanding of each other's points of view is :) -
@kathym Feb 2022
@ianuarius I wasn't referring to code as CODE as in computer speak, but more of a code name as in a nickname. I can see how someone might misinterpret my thoughts.
My suggestion was intended to help people browse the forums to find a simplified description of a particular skirmish and not for any kind of computer science.
The skirmishes have to have some kind of sequence assigned to keep them in some kind of order. We can't call them apple, blue, soccer, etc. and keep them in a meaningful setup.
I have a degree in accounting and have had to work in many computer systems over the past four decades.
That having been said, there's a reason I play acoustic and don't fuss with the technical stuff that others do when they post their songs.
@ajna1960 very well said. One of the reasons there has been so much discussion over the years is because people's thinking processes aren't all the same. -
@keithcuts Feb 2022
@ianuarius I’ve been saying this for years LOL. But trying to do any kind of “communitywide” legislation ... well ...
You can’t control other people here on fawm , but you can control what you put out into the world so in that vein I suggest just trying to make sure whatever you put out to the people makes sense and be a good example
@ajna1960 Great points. You are a superstar for doing the work on the super skirmish. Let me know if you want me to work up music for one of your songs -
@burrsettles Feb 2022
**************** OFFICIAL ADMIN HAT ****************
so, i'm going to hijack this thread.
i'm in the process of making plans for the GFROW (great FAWM rewrite of whenever), and skirmishes are pervasive enough to warrant being a first-class feature.
as in: a built-in feature for folks to schedule skirmishes, view upcoming ones in a calendar, and post their songs in response rather than having to rely on the forum mechanism, which can get confusing and annoying (and the root cause of this thread! :)
so, rather than debating naming conventions as workarounds, i'll ask for feedback on how you think such a "skirmish" feature should work to be as accessible as possible to seasoned skirmishers, fawmlings, and FAWM veterans who just never really do skirmishes (like myself!) :)
**************** OFFICIAL ADMIN HAT **************** -
@whispermouse Feb 2022
As a first-class feature?
Top nav item "skirmishes" goes to a chronological list of skirmishes with a "create new" button and a calendar feed link
Creating a skirmish requires a date/time, optionally(?) a name and description.
The "new song" view has a skirmish selector like the challenge or collaborator selectors.
The skirmish detail page lists the songs associated with the skirmish and has a comment thread for chat about the skirmish.
But I am not a UX designer - is there a UX expert in the house? :D -
@scubed Feb 2022
@burrsettles that is awesome news! Thank you!!
Here are my suggestions:
If possible, I’d like to see a calendar-based interface with pre-populated slots that allows people to sign up to host by simply clicking on a slot. Rather than take the skirmishes out of the forums entirely, I’d like to see the skirmish calendar auto-generate a new forum topic when someone signs up to host a skirmish. The calendar would show the overall skirmish schedule, but the forum topic would be where the host posts the prompt and participants post songs. (With a standardized title format, it would presumably be easier for people to find the separate skirmishes.) -
@ianuarius Feb 2022
@burrsettles That's great news.
If I was free to wish anything at all, the questions is... What do I want to achieve? This would be few things.
1) I want to set up a skirmish and set my prompt to be revealed automatically at the specified datetime.
This requires a form for picking a date and time out of a calendar (maybe connecting to external calendars). I also need to be able to type in the prompt.
And you know, I'd prefer there to be a differentiation between "one word" prompts and these... I shall call them "treasure hunt" prompts that have assembly instructions included. So, maybe you could select between them and when the user sees a list of skirmishes, they have more information available to choose which skirmishes they wish to attend.
2) I want to know what skirmishes are coming up, when, and who's hosting them. Possibly if they're part of SuperSkirmish.
In my opinion, a list would serve the best here. You could even show this list on top of the "myfawm" page (hide it in user settings). Show the correct time and date based on user's timezone settings. Format something like "datetime", "skirmish name", "username".
A point has been made, that the skirmishes could have names. I find it fun to call them something like "Saturday night skirmish" and you could have "SuperSkirmish" as name, too. Maybe use "Skirmish" or "Untitled" as default.
3) I want to take part in a skirmish. Clicking a skirmish on the list will take you on a skirmish page. I'd even keep this separate from the forum. The forum topics don't really add any value, but rather act as an unnecessary middle step.
Ideally, I'd be able to set a "reminder" for a skirmish. Maybe it would be fun to have a button there that confirms you as "attending". This would display a list of everyone who is taking part in this skirmish. You'd also be able to access their songs through the skirmish page, once they are posted (and ticks for each you've commented). -
@ianuarius Feb 2022
Once you're finished with the skirmish, you can click "add song to skirmish" from the skirmish page, which takes you to the "add song" page with appropriate flags attached. Perhaps, there would be a droplist, where you can select, which skirmish the song belongs to (limited to ones in certain timeframe).
4) I want to archive the information. I don't know much about this, but maybe all the skirmishes could be accessed in csv-format or even as a database, with song and user data.
5) I want to edit a skirmish I've set up. Sometimes you get a better prompt idea at the last minute. This should be possible, at least before the skirmish has started. -
@pearlmanhattan Feb 2022
With FAWM being global - it's hard to make a name that is easy to read for all - living on the West Coast of the USA, GMT/UTC isn't something in my day to day usage - and when it's Tuesday for me - it could be Wednesday for everyone else - We need dates and time to keep them straight - but a calendar customized to one's Timezone based on Profile location would aleviate a lot of communication issues with the standard system. Thank you for all your hard work to make such a great site, @burrsettles
I am a long time skirmisher - and some of my best work was born from a skirmish write - They are a valid source of inspiration to many and an important facet of FAWM - no matter what we end up calling them.