Satisfaction and depression
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@psyt Feb 2022
I wrote these lyrics just now, I'll build a song around them next week (I don't know if it'll be the 13th or 14th, or possibly even 15th.) I'm not posting it yet, because it'd be a shame if it's zong-busted as lyrics only and then the chances someone will hear it once it's completed become lower. On the other hand, my last two songs are still zongs themselves. :/
Anyway, they are coming deeply from the heart, and they're stating something that's generally not socially acceptable of musicians. Self admiration and sadness at the lack of external admiration. Except the line "I kinda wonder if even that would be enough", which is very hyperbolic, and came up mostly for the rhyme. The rest might sound hyperbolic too, but isn't.
The Only One Who Knows
"My music keeps improving
But the world keeps on moving.
Few notice, few care,
For the most part, no one is aware.
It's gnawing on me, the more time passes.
I'm getting depressed despite covering my bases.
The quality is high, insanely so.
Does it really matter if I'm the only one who knows?
I imagine it being discussed and analyzed
Broken down, reviewed, held up as example, prized
Dissected into periods, themes, all the academic stuff
I kinda wonder if even that would be enough.
My music is too good to be so damn oblique.
Downtempo Acid is how I term it, it's pretty unique.
Of this song I ought be shameful, but am only tacitly so.
My music is just too good, even if I'm the only one who knows.
It sucks being the only one who knows."
I'm sad. -
@dukongp100 Mar 2022
Hi, I read your lyrics and didn’t know what to say last time, but I’m now more refreshed so able to respond. Hope you are feeling less sad now.
I did a few of these over the last few years, where I spill out my dissatisfaction on other things, such as the acceptance of poor service from companies. However from venting, I learned something about myself and the world. That not many people do care as much as we think they do. I would want to perform to the best of my ability in a job, and I would falter. Yet I’d see people doing these things I consider unprofessional, unhelpful, they still keeep their jobs. But on the flip side, they’re providing to the community, good and bad people have jobs, and within a work context, this is the main value of someone. That doesn’t suggest that all we are are workers, or anything other than this. It’s to say that to a baker, they want you to buy their baked goods, to a teacher, they want you to learn and achieve the benchmark for success, to a ,echini , they want to solve a problem for your vehicle to repair it. And this isn’t all of us, as people. I realised, I could be an awful worker, and still be a nice friendly person. There’s only so much one can concentrate on in any given moment, so to be perfect in family, health, and work, and all other areas, is not possible. We have finite time and enegrgy. Once I knew this, I was much more understanding of faults, and I can sometimes talk myself out of anger at people more for their lack of competence. Being bad at your job isn’t a sign you’re worthless.
So the basic tldr: I felt superior to bad people, but bad people also provide service to the world. I found this awareness helped me realise, if you’re bad at something, it doesn’t matter to many other people.
I hope this helped in some way, I know it did t touch too much on the topic, but I felt more able to respond with this in mind -
@billwhite51 Mar 2022
millions get big salaries for twiddling their thumbs in cubicles, while poets are given peanuts for raising the consciousness of the world
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@katestantonsings Mar 2022
@billwhite51 Thumbs Up!!!
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@johnstaples Mar 2022
@pyst, I love my music. I really do. I listen to my music. A lot. Some of it is pretty good. As good as much of the stuff on the charts I'm pretty sure of that.
BUT, other than here at FAWM and maybe one or two good friends, NO ONE cares one iota about my music!
I can post a picture of my cat on social media and get instant engagement from dozens of people...friends, family and people I don't even know.
But when I post my favorite 2022 FAWM song, The Smoke, I get nothing. Zilch. Nada. Not a single comment or like or anything. It's like it didn't even post; but there it is!
So, I write for myself. And comments here at FAWM.
I know I could put a LOT more effort into promoting my music. I could perform gigs. I could do online events. I could build a fan base. But I watch folks who are really good do all of this for a tiny modicum of success. Not nearly enough success to quit their day job. But they do a TON of extra work I'm just not willing to do.
I still dream of a phone call where someone Really Big wants to record one of my songs. And they have a Big Hit. And then they win a Grammy. And I'm invited to the after party and...WAIT...I wouldn't even wanna go! Maybe I'll get a wig like Sia wears... -
@mahtowin Mar 2022
@johnstaples I am with you - to me it is absolutly the same. Nearly no one cares about my music. Only a few friends and my partner, who is a musician and a FAWMler, too.
But I love my poems, my ideas, my music. I love to make musik with my partner - thats a great gift!
And I know the feeling when nobody else seems to care - exept friends and FAWMlers. That is one reason why I am here. And the other is: to listen to others who have the same feelings sometimes and to support them. -
@nadine Mar 2022
@johnstaples same here. This is why I spam around on SoundCloud and buy my friends' albums at Bandcamp. I did not buy any professional album last year and felt better.
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@psyt Mar 2022
@dukongp100 thanks for the reply and the bump to the thread, getting no replies certainly contributed to a feeling of alienation even from FAWM itself, which naturally contributed to sadness. The tears stopped 20 minutes later as a comment on one of my prior songs landed, since it's hard to keep crying about a lack of positive attention after one gets some of that attention. :P
@johnstaples I commiserate entirely. It helps knowing I'm not alone at feeling this way, and the same goes for other users who agreed with you.
(I did finish and publish this song btw, it's the 15th one here.) -
@apolez3 Mar 2022
@dukongp100 /// I think the goal for me anyway is to now find a balance in where as that is possible to be good in all area's of my life... God willing... I feel like I do have to take on roles too as a teacher to anyone I exchange information with ; as a cook ; for what I put in "my" body is important ... an accountant to know how to budget funds and more... and more... It can be overwhelming if thought of on a whole but really I need to become a better maid as well along with personal trainer for myself " and etc... and as far as reviews here... I find it hard to tell if I'm good in what regard because we are to just say "happy thoughts" on a song or lyric... I mean Idk,, but I too have a hard time in art taking criticism though I believe I'm handling it better now for I do want to I guess get whatever my message is across and not be too unclear; though I like how some can take things one way and others another... I tend to have a set thought in mind for it... interpretation of the viewer is their job... but as the creator and viewer of your own work are you biased against yourself for your heart and guts went into it? Maybe if you step back a bit you can welcome the critiques that are harsher to maybe push you to a greater artist that you could be getting through to more than just yourself.!! @psyt after you know your stuff is good enough I feel it's all about the marketing... of yourself really...your group . your art... to gather a broader audience. have faith and push through the obstacles you face...@johnstaples
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@zecoop Mar 2022
@psyt - you are absolutely not alone and I completely relate to many of the thoughts and feelings here. Making music and writing lyrics can be such a personal thing and a deep expression. Being ignored or dismissed can be very hard, and for me, I just made the decision that my artistic expression was really just for me. I am well aware that the music I write is absolutely not going to be everyone’s style. Much like @johnstaples said. If you yourself don’t appreciate what you make, who will? That balance is different for everyone, and each person is affected differently by other’s appreciation (it lack of it). One thing that is related to this is that FAWM doesn’t always help. The fact that thousands of people are taking part and many thousands of songs/lyrics are being written in a very short time, means that it is simply hard for people to make it to yours, very often. I know that I haven’t even gotten to ANY son songs by many of tge people in my watchlist, and I have nearly 300 comments. I OFTEN have the conversation with my dad about this topic, He’ll say that no one liked his lyric, but I remind him that it wasn’t that not many liked it, it was that not many FOUND it. The logistics of FAWM is hard, especially when you add into listening/commenting, the fact that people are trying to write themselves.
So, @psyt I definitely know and have felt all the feelings you are expressing. I know that I have listened and enjoyed your music in the past. I am glad you posted number 15, and hope you are feeling encouraged. -
@chrishope Mar 2022
lovely thread ...you may follow my name to a song about depression if you so wish..
edit... https://fawm.org/songs/136424/ -
@resonut123 Mar 2022
I write and play music because I have to. It comes from Somewhere(?) and needs to come out of me somehow.
When I was in my late teens I wanted to be a Famous Rock star. I got a little taste playing in many bands, but none were Famous.
Now, like others have stated I write for me and if other people can find the music and relate... that is Great.
I am Old now and I have no desires to be a rockstar or have tons of money, I just want to write, record and perform my music.
Someone touched on how hard it is for people to actually find your music.
It is very true especially today!!! with the internet, YouTube Facebook, other streaming/ purchasing sites.
There is just a ton of Music out there and we are just a little stone making a Ripple in an Ocean.
You have stuff on bandcamp, that is a good place.
FAWM is an excellent place too, but even I am not going to hear every output by every Fawmer from every country posted this year even.
Maybe just realizing touching One Person that you Don't Know with your music is an Amazing thing!!!
Take care and keep at it. -
@dukongp100 Mar 2022
@pyst glad you felt better shortly after. I find that occurs sometimes at random in no relation to my actual feelings. I’ve had threads not responded to before in many cases outside of these challenges. And it’s something that still can eat me up at times. But in the moment, it can hurt, oh boy it sure does, then there’s times I’m more able to accept it as a random circumstance. People may be busy, may have missed the boat, also that others may not feel compelled to respond, alas, a void is a painful place to be when opening up to find no voices calling back,
My opinion is this - I don’t know whether I want fame, fortunate, obscurity. It’s something I’m not clued up on enough to say exactly, but I side with the obscurity. Mainly because I feel safer in that place of free exploration and enjoyment. Kinda like a weightlifter trains specifically to achieve, say, Arnold size muscles, not as a byproduct of simply going to a gym. A musicians goal may be fame and to achieve that it makes sense to me to make the steps necessarily if that’s the goal. Ofc there is discourse to say it can happen inadveridly, however what chances are there I can say for certain ? It seems there are many voices not heard in the music world, art world, education etc that is being discussed also in this thread.
So I guess I wrap up, that I actually don’t know what I truly want future wise, but I enjoy the Fawm and 5090 spirit and the positivity comment system aligns with my values as encouragement for improvement,
I’ll conclude on this, generally peoples strengths are what make them great and unique, while the happy accidents can be claimed as intended, as discussed in other threads here this time round !
I feel a tinge of uncomfortableness expressing so much of this that may or may not be useful. Which goes to say that I feel similar in this matter somewhat ! :)
Keep doing where your whims and desires take you, ‘ as long as you hurt no one and enjoy what you do ‘ :) -
@apolez3 Mar 2022
@reasonut123 Yeah basically that is why I think marketing is key; "not that I'm saying I'm an expert on it yet,, too flustered within the creating of the 'art' itself to be clear headed for that racket atm" *that also comes from somewhere that has to be gotten out...
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@zecoop Mar 2022
@apolez3 - If you are looking for more constructive criticism during FAWM, you can certainly ask for it specifically, and make it clear that is what you would prefer. But as discussed ad nauseum in another thread, FAWM generally is focused on encouraging creativity and not finding faults so even if asked for, it might not happen much. That is one of the main reasons I am here and have continued for 12 years. I'm not in competition with myself or anyone else. I just want to see what kind of art comes out of me each year. To each their own and everyone does artistic creativity differently. More power to you and your creativity!
...and perhaps your post was edited while I was typing, haha. Anyway... -
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@mikeskliar Mar 2022
This is a fascinating thread and I totally can relate to just about what everyone has said. This will be about the 10th year in a row where I take my 'best' of what I've done in fawm, refine/rewrite/remix it a bit, and issue an album on Bandcamp. IN prior years I took sometimes the whole month of March (not working all the time of course!) to do that and issue it in APril. Most of the time my 'releases' have gotten less and less interest each year, ...so for this year I decided I would do a little less polishing, and just get it out there. (It helps that for most of the songs I was considering for this project, I took the time to record them properly when doing so in the first place) So, my album 'Interesting Times" is up at Bandcamp (there's a link near the end of my bio here if anyone is curious) and while its gotten a little interest, that bit of interest is dying down fast. Yeah, it gets me depressed every year, particularly since I think I'm getting better at songwriting, production, arrangements, recording, etc.,,,, but in the end, as many here have said, ya gotta do this for yourself first. That being said, yeah, a few more downloads would lift my spirits, that's for sure :)
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@nadine Mar 2022
I am not sure if people are overwhelmed by the sheer amount of music... or people already know that there will be a new album every year... or if were living in difficult times and you're too busy with your own thoughts.
I often ask myself WHY I put so much effort into my art... but if there is only one person who spent money it's completely worth it. Not because of the money - its rather "I value your work as much than a professional artist".
Thus I cannot upload things in a mediocre quality and move ahead. It gives me the impression that I don't value my work as much as I should and it doesn't feel right.
Vice versa, I comment on every song I listen to and on every album I bought. 8 wish there were more people just saying "Thank you". -
@timfatchen Mar 2022
@nadine i guess as a consequence of being online solong, I _can_, and do, upload things in what I consider mediocre quality. The reason for doing it was, originally, no way of making money online anyway, and if I didn't upload regardles, the music would be lost. What I _don't_ do in a mediocre fashion is physical CDs, which are the very best production I can provide. And those uploaded to somewhere like Bandcamp are the ones I do ask for payment on. But generally, payment is still an optional on Bandcamp. Not on apple, google, wherever the "commercial" for want of a better name albums go in digital form. Not optional on produced CDs.
I am particularly appreciative of my small band of Patreons on patreon.com/timfatchen, who fork out real cash, regularly. They get a whole lot including sketches and music in development which, by its very nature, is in "mediocre" form, but can follow it through as each successive iteration is put up.
Spotify of course is a bad joke re income.
@billwhite "poets are given peanuts for raising the consciousness of the world". I remind you yet again: no good deed goes unpunished! -
@ampersandman Mar 2022
I can relate so much. My band life gets increasingly frustrating since interest in what we’re doing is so small, and we really put A LOT of work into writing, recording, releasing ... it’s all DIY. But Facebook engagement keeps getting lower, and the experience of playing our music live to people has been missing for the last two years.
That being said, it’s a tough market. In order to get returns you have to invest first. I think you can’t just wait for people to notice you, you would have to self-promote like crazy to get a little attention. Because others do. I watched a documentary in the 00s on a relatively small band who were among the first to use all the new internet opportunities to run their band independently from companies. The singer said he dedicates 80 % of his work time to promo/management activities and only 20 % to making the actual music.
I decided against that which is why I only am putting out songs during FAWM (I should finish albums, but what for) and for myself. Promoting the band is stressful and frustrating enough. -
@nadine Mar 2022
@timfatchen I don't distinguish in between stuff I upload on YouTube, Bandcamp or send to record labels. I have my personal commitment on quality. FAWM is the only place where I upload super rough sketches, because the focus is different (= songwriting, community). I never did music for the sake of money. It's ridiculous in the days of streaming anyway...
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@thedutchwidows Mar 2022
This is a really good discussion and interesting to hear everyone’s experiences; it all sounds very familiar to me. I used to think I was the outlier, but I’ve come to realise that my experience is pretty common and the successes are perhaps the exception.
The Dutch Widows started five years ago as an anonymous experiment to see if I could generate any interest in the music without putting any effort into ‘marketing’ it. Almost no-one I know is aware that I do this, which was a deliberate choice to avoid that awkwardness when family and friends listen and smile in that "how do I tell him I hate this?" way...
The promotion of the music has been limited to occasional twitter or instagram posts, providing music for a podcast and a couple of efforts at targeting people that were in influential but niche jobs in the music industry; but even that was basically just a tweet or two.
I can say with reasonable certainty that my near-5 year experiment suggests that if you put no effort in to promoting the music, you get nothing back! There are no shortcuts – it takes effort to get anywhere. Either that or the music I make is cr*p. One of those two.
The upside is that I’ve had fun creating music for myself while proving something that was probably entirely predictable at the start…
Having said that, I logged on to Facebook for the first time in a while and I was surprised to find that the DW FB page has almost 700 followers (it was 5 when I last looked). However, the new followers are almost all middle-aged women in the far east who seem to think that I provide dating services for actual Dutch widows and they would like to connect.
I think they're all real people and I think I need to tweak the bio a little to clarify matters… -
@zecoop Mar 2022
Even more points that I relate to… thanks for starting this thread @psyt -I am still working my way to your songs.
@ampersandman - bring in a band that plays original music is so hard these days and takes a TON of work. I finally had to make the decision to stop in 2018, so that I could give more attention to my own music as ZeCoop. It was exhausting doing the booking, planning, schmoozing, connecting, playing… and then telling people that we understand that they couldn’t make it out because they had to walk their cat, or were sick (of going out), or insert one of 15,000 reasons which I have used myself. It is just more work than I was willing to give anymore.
So now I only do ZeCoop, but as @mikeskliar and @thedutchwidows said, you need to put a ton of effort and time into promoting and working on building your audience. Even then, you never know…
So it all comes back to the original post from @psyt - you bare your soul, exposing emotional nerves when you write prose and/or music. Sharing it, to some, makes you even more vulnerable. And generally, there is very little response. Even when there is, they may not like it or understand it. Or, as @thedutchwidows said, even those close to you might feel a guilt that they HAVE to listen and not give an honest response. (One joy of bandcamp is you can see if they REALLY listened)
Anyway, for me it always comes back to the fact that I NEED to write music, and I really do that for myself. *I* love what I do and everything else is a bonus. -
@dukongp100 Mar 2022
@apolez3 interesting point re taking the types of criticism. It can help me when I reframe the negative comment in another way. Looking for what is it they said, and having time to reflect with no pressure to respond immediately. A rash response could potentially be under hurry, and cause emotions to run before they have had chance to settle. While waiting a little while to allow the bruising to settle, in theory could allow a more reflective and self analytical response to come to oneself.
And I like the saying ‘good enough is good enough’. I may not be the most talented at music in a room, but in the average / bottom 1% / top 1% ranges, I can happily find myself in the middle average where the least of those are people who play guitar once a year to the practice prolific. In other words, I’m alright. Not amazing not bad. But good enough :) I find this helps me look at the vagueness of what exactly good enough is, it lets me decide what that is. So it gives me permission to listen to all comments and take what I need and give less to what I don’t.
I can allow room for both skirmishes and the 3 year albums, and meet in the middle with my abilities -
@apolez3 Mar 2022
@dukongp100 I even forgot I wrote that... I mean base line, creating anything is good... releasing what's in you is good... and you know I'm not expecting critical reviews though I have gotten some; I mean usually In artwork I'm just good enough to get great reviews always usually like fine art stuff paintings, sculptures and the rest... though I remember some suggestions and points maybe I wasn't ready to take at the time that I see may be beneficial to my artwork in lue as in communication through it to other's artworks and the discussion within that and the daily life of "being human". Anyways Couldn't even read all I said atm but hope it helped... I didn't mean to dis' the only nice reviews either from FAWM i mean it must be there for a reason... I just am not sure sometimes where I should place my head if anywhere as to the okay , just okay, good , great, excellent , over the moon lol??? Anyways Guess "we" can usually tell when something is kickass I'm just not a singer or musician though I can put notes together and played very beginner violin and piano... I just can speak with poetry basically maybe I'll listen and put it to video and have that. I ugh idk Anyways Glad to be here, love collaborating having someone else take what I write to song format... with the vocals and musical instrument/s ... like, could it be my day job?
