how to not make things sound soulless
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@nihilazo Feb 2022
I've been wanting to try making some pop-y songs and the process usually goes like this:
1. come up with a melody that I like
2. add some basic drums and chords
3. realize it sounds like soulless corporate video background music
4. abandon the song
how can I avoid making songs that sound soulless? Because I want them to be genuine but it doesn't turn out sounding that way -
@radioovermoscow Feb 2022
"try making some pop-y songs"
there's your problem :) -
@bithprod Feb 2022
Soulless is the current recipe for success. That's why I'm highly unsuccessful. Well, maybe. ;)
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@dzdandcunfsd Feb 2022
Yup, what @radioovermoscow said. You gotta just play what you feel. After many many years of practice, much like a great actor you can sometimes fool people into thinking it was "genuine" or "from the heart" but most musicians will always be able to tell, and most people in general for that matter. They might just not know what it was they didn't like.
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@radioovermoscow Feb 2022
I write pop songs too @nihilazo - but I don't "try" to. It just happens when I'm making a big ol' racket, when it comes to working out the melody, a bloody pop tune appears. Sure, it's surrounded by Big Muffs and broken-sounding synths, but it's a pop tune.
Try writing naturally first, then if you think a tune is right, THEN try adapting it to 'pop'. Never start with the goal of writing a 'pop' tune if that's not your natural inclination. -
@cblack Feb 2022
And stopping caring how it sounds actually gets a better performance from me. My lyrics are intentional, but any recording (and even programming in a DAW) are better when I just go with it.
Hope that helps! -
@max Feb 2022
Look at creating songs as painting on canvas.
We don't have to mix the paint ourselves anymore. It comes in tubes.
Still we can create something authentic.
The trick is not to try to create what you have in mind but let the process of creating take over. Throw some colors on the canvas and see what happens. Sure everything your eyes ever saw will influence you in the process. And yes it may take 50 paintings before you find your own style. Just keep painting and try different sizes of canvas. Use colors you normally wouldn't use, different brushes, etc.
In my good FAWM years I wrote 20 songs each february, only 3 or 4 songs were keepers. I truly believe, just the fact you're trying and creating, eventually it will lead to something authentic and genuine.
Try not to write songs for an audience, write songs for yourself. -
@nadine Feb 2022
There's plenty of things you can do - even inside the cheesiest chart topping pop music!
1. Don't over-quantisize what you play.
2. Use other chords than major and minor. Pop music works well with subtle sus2 and sus4 tensions.
3. Spice up your drum sets with some samples and textures.
4. Play around with hihats and ride cymbals. Or add some percussions.
5. Record addlibs / vocalisations
...
I could continue this list forever. Just take one and try! -
@headfirstonly Feb 2022
Lots of good advice here. First off, don't lose hope, or decide you will never get what you're looking for. The best way of learning what works is to make a lot of music where something didn't work, identifying what the thing was that didn't work, and then doing something better the next time. Believe me, I've made a lot of music that didn't work and I still do. But I learn something from each failure. You may have to write hundreds of bad songs before the good ones start to appear; you just have to keep plugging away, and the more you write, the faster you'll get through them. As of today, I've written or recorded a thousand pieces of music since I signed up for FAWM.
Music is a lot like cookery; you can follow a recipe to the letter and usually get something edible as a result, but after a while you learn that (for example) allowing the onions to caramelise for five minutes isn't really doing what you need it to do and actually, keeping them going for three-quarters of an hour gets the taste and flavour you were looking for.
Your personality, your character, and you soul will come through in your music when you discover your own ways of changing the recipe. That's when I'll hear a track and instantly know it's one of yours. Keep at it. -
@chroes Feb 2022
I'd say two things that have been said before but in other words: try to add small elements, like risers or found sounds or something like that. I find layering helps a lot. Second thing: imperfection adds character and soul and vulnerability. It's sometimes tough to leave something not absolutely perfect, but in the end, that's what makes the song special.
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@jayjay Feb 2022
Just a few thoughts-
Keep your lyrics simple. If you have to give an explanation, the audience won’t understand them, identify with them or care.
Use simple chord structures. Pop songs aren’t usually too adventurous and many use same chord progressions
Repetition is your friend. Lyrically and musically.
Sell it in first few bars.
Chorus within 60 seconds and if it is a good one start with it. -
@nateger Feb 2022
You could always double down on "soulless".
Pop music stole my soul away
Autotune sings for me
But I'd rather have 1 billion streams
Than artistic integrity
No diss on pop music! :P -
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@scottlake Feb 2022
Pop music: say little of worth, but change up the mix every 8 bars. In subtle ways until your prechorus where you use that to build to your banging chorus.
Homework: go watch Rick Beato’s video on his breakdown of Kelly Clarkson’s “Since U Been Gone”.
Mine that video for ideas. It’s a masterwork of a pop song. -
@clownresidue Feb 2022
If I realize that one part sounds too stiff, then I try to reword some lines until the rhythm sounds more interesting and varied. I usually do this by either replacing the word at the end of the line with a longer/shorter word, or adding/taking out words. I prefer letting my lyrics guide the melody bc it's difficult for me to come up with the melody on my own :')
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@elainedimasi Feb 2022
So I can't recommend enough, this youtube video by Tantacrul on how to make soulless corporate music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIxY_Y9TGWI
I guess if you know the how-to, the how-to-not can follow!
.. Now, I'm really kidding here (although it is a good video).
The truly corporate soulless music is meant to omit emotional development. I think when we're learning to write songs or learning to arrange, we simply don't have the language down yet to make the development of a song happen in practice, even though we feel it on the inside.
Keep trying things, and instead of getting discouraged, I sometimes step back and say "ok, I'm the hired gun. I don't care about the song, and I'm a mediocre piano player in this style, but I'm showing up for work and it *might* make it that much easier for whoever finishes the lyrics to do their thing."
Learn by doing and by understanding all the elements in the songs you love. It takes a while to know what they all are. -
@elainedimasi Feb 2022
Totally different comment - it's always fascinating on FAWM (and among other musicians too) that you'll hear certain styles come out of someone naturally, and then, get to know them and find out there's some *other* styles they really, really love but can't seem to create, or perform in a natural way.
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@jacobeverettwallace Feb 2022
Triple your vocals. For real, that's what I do. Haha.
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@siebass Feb 2022
I think I may be going out on a limb when I say this, but I do a lot of pop-y type songs (I mean, it stands for "popular" music, and I definitely WANT my music to be popular, even if it isn't), and I always create to a grid. Beato has a lot of great videos, and I like many of them, but one with which I disagree is his hatred of "the grid". I find everything sounds tight, polished, and modern "pop" when you start with drums and/or synths that are locked in to the grid. I use logic pro's AI drummer, and it sounds phenomenal and very tight, and not like a machine at all to my ears, anyway. After starting with tight rhythm or groove, you can emote during your performance, and play over/under/across the grid, but it really helps when producing to be able to swap things in and out, and and subtract easily in time. I think it's the difference between "quantizing" after the fact, which does potentially take the life out of a track, and starting with a rigid framework, and keeping the emotive takes you play over top of it. Then you aren't squashing the life out of a performance to fit the time. I guess I agree on not quantizing things to squash them, but disagree that I think the grid and starting with something on time really helps from a production standpoint to make a song "tight".
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@siebass Feb 2022
As a separate point, the biggest thing that has helped me over the past 2 years for not having things sound soulless or weak has been focusing on the attitude of the vocals. For me, the biggest difference between "soulless" and "awesome" in my songs has been improving my vocal performances on the takes. What I mean by that is NOT necessarily on pitch, not necessarily perfectly and powerfully sung, but singing with an attitude and emotion that is appropriate for the song. The vocal draws 70-80% of the interest, so if you can get a nasty (in a good way) vocal take, even if slightly off pitch or quieter than you'd like, I think that will do wonders for your songs. Even with all of the clinical nature of modern pop, you notice those vocals are still pretty damn phenomenal.
Sorry for the wall of text, was just thinking about this for a day or so after reading the post. -
@chickenjail Feb 2022
It's very simple. Just write about chickens.
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@chrishope Feb 2022
and dead fish
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@hamiltonpoolhall Mar 2022
@elainedimasi I loved both these comments – both the idea of taking a step back to view the song from the point of view of a hired gun, and the notion that so many people (raises hand) arrive at what they do by stumbling over, under, around and through the things they were *trying* to do.
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@gindark Mar 2022
I really like this question so I'm going to put my own ideas in. I'm no pro, though, so take everything I'm going to add with a grain of salt. I also haven't yet listened to your music to see where you're at, so I will do that but I have ADHD so I have to write this out now or I'll forget!
First: who are you listening to? Have you ever heard a song and thought, that's really soulful, how did they do it? What is it about the music or lyrics that makes it seem 'soulful'? Is it the passionate delivery of the lyrics, the chord progression or groove driving it, the subject matter, how far the whole song deviates from the expected? Each one will probably have some different combination, but there'll be a little spark of genius in the best...
Second: As to the technical musical side, yeah, I liked taking ideas from Rick Beato, Adam Nealy, and other YouTubers too. I found modes very helpful. Understanding chord progressions and going off the beaten path a little bit. I'm not great at the instrumentation though, so that's not something I can really put my finger on more than that.
Third: lyrically, never come at the thing head on. Try not to go for the obvious cliched rhyme (love and above etc). Maybe no rhyming is needed, if you are the kind of person who automatically did that. Try for something visceral, as in, it punches you in the gut. Try for something that really upsets you first. You can move onto love songs after that. Thinking of Sweet Dreams by the Eurythmics, it is very narrow and tightly defined in the music, but Annie Lennox's delivery and the lyrics make it magic. And what is that song's message even? It doesn't matter. It has a mood!
I will stop now because it's such a fascinating topic and I have real life boring work to do. But thanks for asking that question @nihilazo! -
@tcelliott Mar 2022
@elainedimasi and @hamiltonpoolhall I think you've both just crystalized something for me that has been under the surface for quite a while. I'm still working on it, but thank you.
