FAWM feels maybe TOO big sometimes
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@odilongreen Jan 2022
FAWM is such a terrific event, but sometimes for me personally, it feels a bit TOO overwhelming. Not the "doing 14 songs in 28 days" part (although that's hard for me too), but trying to keep up with listening and commenting on others' excellent tracks.
Given the volume of outstanding output here, it is basically impossible to keep up with everything, and intimidating even to try. One approach is to spend as much time listening to others' music as I want to, but that makes it hard to complete my own tracks to the level I want to do, and also risks massive burn out. Or I can pull back on listening to fellow FAWMers to focus on my own music, in which case I both feel like I'm depriving myself of hearing great tracks and also like I'm missing out on a core component of the FAWM experience.
Obviously, as in so much of life, finding the right balance is the key to a happy February, and is a personal matter that everyone has to judge for themselves. But often when I do FAWM, I find myself looking forward to the more relaxed 50/90, where it is much easier to meaningfully keep up with what everyone else is doing as well as working on one's own music. Yet I know that some find 50/90 too long and diffuse, and prefer the intense excitement of the 28-day FAWM experience, which is absolutely fair.
Plainly the only "right" answer is just to do whatever feels right to make the FAWM experience meaningful for myself. But I freely acknowledge that, along with anticipation and excitement, a little bit of anxiety is creeping in for me as I try to figure out how to balance everything to have the best month I can! -
@guatecoop Jan 2022
I agree with you @odilongreen . I do find that all of the parts that I want to do during FAWM can be overwhelming. Balance is something that has been something I’ve worked on every year. I’m hoping that I improve just a little more than my previous years and I consciously plan on that during January.
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@akokulit Jan 2022
What I usually do is listen to FAWM tracks to refill my creativity tank. They said imitation is a form of flattery - so I try to find and take note of stuff I like (chords, melodies, lyrics) from what I heard and use it as inspiration on my next song. I stop listening when I am inspired already and start working on my next song.
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@audrey Jan 2022
I always try to shorten my watchlist before FAWM starts, but somehow after joining in on the forums, I end up lengthening it instead. Once FAWM starts, I end up feeling very unproductive as I keep receiving tons of new song notifications from my watchlist, and that makes me feel a lot of pressure to post my own songs. I guess I try to resolve it by saving more than half of my listening for the first two weeks of March, when a lot of FAWMers are still around. So, please, everyone stick around for a bit after February ends. :)
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@bithprod Jan 2022
Yup. Stress factor 1: I want to listen to and comment on songs by the people I "know", as they will most likely be good, but that wouldn't be fair towards fawmlings or other songwriters, so what to do? Spread it out thinly, or carpet-bomb a chosen few? Perhaps save some commenting until March, but risk that they've already left? Then there's the people who have commented on my songs, surely they deserve a favor back! And I want to say something a bit more profound and helpful than "good song", so commenting sure takes some time and effort. Sometimes I simply enjoy a song and leave silently, like a thief in the night.
Stress factor 2: I'm past the point of churning out songs just to get the numbers up. The song needs to sound at least okay. When you can't really sing or play, that takes time. This is why I have informed my clients that I'm not available for big projects during February. So, FAWM is quite expensive, too.
Stress factor 3: When the songs have been written, some are bound to be good enough to get a life outside of FAWM. That means spending hundreds of hours of recording, producing etc., and also a lot of money. In the end, perhaps it will be worth it for the 3 or 4 people who enjoy my songs (he said sarcastically). In all honesty, I really shouldn't be writing more songs. Darn, I'm a good demotivator. -
@circle Jan 2022
It should be even bigger! Ideally it could usurp Facebook in a few years and become our new overlord
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@johnstaples Jan 2022
@odilongreen this is so true. During my first few FAWMs I'd give a "thank you" plus a reciprocal listen/comment for every comment. Then I couldn't keep up so I dropped the TYs. Now I try and reciprocate but in doing so I run out of time and mostly miss out on new FAWMers. One year I tried to split the month in half...2 weeks for writing then 2 weeks for listening. That didn't work. Tried the "March listening month" strategy but it empties out pretty fast by March 3 or 4.
If anyone figures out a winning strategy please post here! -
@odilongreen Jan 2022
@johnstaples, I certainly haven't come up with the right balance yet. There just aren't enough hours in the day between work and spouse (and I don't even have kids, who I assume a parent actually has to tend to every now and then). But what you and @audrey suggest might be the best of imperfect solutions: trying to make March listening actually a thing.
And I absolutely understand and experience @bithprod's stress factors! -
@zecoop Jan 2022
It's a good problem, but it is definitely overwhelming at times. I have had years where I hardly saw any of my watchlist, because I was trying to reciprocate and comment on FAWMlings. It can be hard to find the right mix, but I love the creativity it sparks in me and others and I love the overwhelmingly awesome community here. :)
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@andygetch Jan 2022
My life/work/art balance is also a work in progress. FAWM feels like a giant multi-day music festival where there are far more activities than time to do them. During the last two years life had other plans, so even my February balance tipped away from art and work. For FAWM 2022, there will be days when the balance again tips away from art, towards life or work. What I don't know is how many days that will occur. I will keep my commitments, prioritize, do what I have time to do, which includes resting, and taking a break when I need it.
For this FAWM I am minimizing forum activity and time-specific commitments. Songwriting and commenting will be as time permits and focusing on collaborations and challenges. Though I love the chain games, this may be not be the year to join in and certainly is the year to let others run my favorites. The songs I write will be what they will be, when my schedule permits, and focusing on the fun part of songwriting. -
@quork Jan 2022
It’s amazing to me that I will not hear 70-80% of the artists here.
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@johnstaples Jan 2022
@odilongreen maybe an active push with frequent reminders early and throughout February to promote MALM (March Album Listening Month) would be a useful endeavor? I nominate you to create an initial post and I will gladly chime in plus bump it daily if needed. Maybe simply increasing awareness of this as a strategy would be useful? The skeptic/cynic in me worries that this might gives folks a ready excuse not to comment now and then "forget" to comment later. :(
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@stephenwordsmith Jan 2022
We need a Thanos-style purge to keep things interesting. Burr snaps his fingers and half of our accounts disappear. This will make the task of listening seem less overwhelming and encourage us to branch out and engage with new artists.
I'll miss some of you, though. -
@whispermouse Jan 2022
I try to catch what I can during February, add people to my watchlist, and then go back the first week or two of March and listen more deeply.
It does give me a bit of FOMO to realize that there is going to be some great music created here over the next 4 weeks and just by random chance, I'll never hear it! -
@johnstaples Jan 2022
@stephenwordsmith hmmm, first it was the avatars...
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@odilongreen Jan 2022
@quork And @whispermouse: that’s exactly it. It stinks knowing that there will be music posted here that I would absolutely enjoy tremendously but that I will simply never hear through the luck of what I happen to stumble across and the time limitations we all face. And my life will be poorer for it.
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@odilongreen Jan 2022
@johnstaples Thanks for the nomination! :) Maybe I will launch such a March Album Listening Month thread. But haven’t others tried before? Of course, who knows, maybe this will be the time it catches on.
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@fuzzy Jan 2022
But @odilongreen, your life will be enriched by the music that you WILL hear! :)
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@franniezest Jan 2022
I’m going to try to do my writing on weekend and listening etc on weekday evenings in the shorter spurts of time I’ll have then
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@odilongreen Jan 2022
@fuzzy, that is absolutely true, and a much healthier way to look at it!
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@nadine Jan 2022
I completely agree with @odilongreen. I mostly focus on writing songs, and when I need a pause, I check comments, my friends songs and do reciprocal commenting. The post-FAWM listening party has been one of my highlights, but lots of people were gone. I wish more folks stay here in March to listen to songs, chit-chat and calm down.
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@gm7 Jan 2022
@nadine @odilongreen...you have my vote! I enjoy March to listen to some additional music and make comments.
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@kenmattsson Jan 2022
I'm completely up for MALM. Perhaps a listening party of some sort? I'l definitely +1 a forum thread on it.
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@fuzzy Jan 2022
That's me, @odilongreen, a paragon of positivity!
A naysayer to negativity! :) -
@burrsettles Jan 2022
I wonder if part of it is that the community is so inclusive — I realize some people mis quibble with that term — but what I mean is that there's a push and pressure to give feedback to everything we listen to, and to make sure that every song that can be given feedback get at least something.
That can be pretty exhausting, and I wonder what kinds of tools can be created to help facilitate this.
One thing a lot of fawmers have asked for is a "like" button or other reactions in addition to comments. There's a fear that that will cannibalize real comments, although if you're stressing out over how to leave something deeper than, "nice guitar tone!" maybe that's not a bad thing.
I've also though about how a "feed" or "recommender system" (like a real one, not the hacked-together dashboard you currently have) can do some of the heavy lifting here: show you song that you're more likely to comment on, and also once a song has started to "go viral" on the site, recommend it less so that others can be more visible.
Anyway, a couple of thoughts on my radar. I'd be very interested in hearing ideas about how the structure of the site can facilitate this (AFTER you get profile pics back, can add 3+ fawmers to a collab, etc.) -
@burrsettles Jan 2022
PS: I'm really appreciative of this thread! Helps me see what (at least more vocal) peoples' pain points are and what we can do about it...
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@mardeycranbleson Jan 2022
Please don't ever add likes.
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@fuzzy Jan 2022
+1 @mardeycranbleson
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@fuzzy Jan 2022
(Yes, I'm well aware of the irony of giving a "+1" to the "no like button" comment. :)
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@mikeskliar Jan 2022
Very interesting thread indeed. Part of me definitely misses that 2006 -2008 time, back when FAWM was so small that basically all of us listened to most of each others material. Obviously that’s not possible anymore. It is a kind of “first world problem embarrassment of riches“ that there are so many talented people here but yes it can and does get overwhelming sometimes. It’s hard to know how to filter things without being too hierarchical and exclusionary, but I wonder if maybe if it was easier to search by genre etc. (the song tags are great but they end up being 20 million of them) - maybe a shorter list of options in some somewhat “standard“ categories? That way if I feel like listening to say a folk song or an electronica sign I don’t have to search 42 different categories (Indie this pop that, etc. etc.)?
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@quork Jan 2022
A few years ago I spent March trying to listen to and comment on one song from each FAWMer. I think I got to 30% before I ran out of steam.
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@sbs2018 Jan 2022
I used to run around and do TYs, but unless a comment calls to answer, I think I will go the route of reciprocating with listens only. That’s what people really want, right?
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@johnstaples Jan 2022
@burrsettles you've created a monster! But, it is a fluffy, wonderful, loving monster (I'm thinking that big blue one from Monsters, Inc.)
Very interesting suggestion you had for 'once a song has started to "go viral" on the site, recommend it less so that others can be more visible'! While most sites would be pushing the popular this system would push the lonely songs. Very FAWM-esque!
The idea of a Like button is sure to generate some conversation! -
@cblack Jan 2022
My tactic in the past has been complete ruthlessness. By that I mean, I go through as much of the posted song list as I possibly can, but give a song no more than 10 seconds to grab me. I know I'll miss out on some great songs that start slow, but that's gonna happen no matter what the tactic is.
It's still a lot of listening, though. It's just the best tactic I've come up with. Oh, and typing comments while the song is playing saves some time too. -
@cblack Jan 2022
Note: If a song grabs me, I listen to the whole thing.
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@odilongreen Jan 2022
I like the idea of an automated system recommending popular songs less! Very much in the spirit of FAWM.
For the same reason, I do NOT like the idea of a "like" button, especially if there were filtering built in to the site to allow searching for songs with the most likes. I'd be worried that song discovery would turn into a popularity contest. I realize that's a bit of a problem even with the current "comment count" system. But commenting (as opposed to hitting a "like" button) does take some effort, so I think it's a fair compromise, whereas the ease of hitting "like" would just exacerbate the problem.
And yeah, I kind of do the @cblack / @fuzzy approach to listening and commenting as well (although I think I often go a bit longer than a merciless 10 seconds!). It kind of sucks to take that approach, as I wish I could give every song my full attention, but that's obviously impossible.
Anyone remember how many songs FAWM had last year? Assuming three minutes per song (and I have no idea if that's a fair average or not), I wonder how long it would take to listen to every song posted here in 2021, and if it is even temporally possible over the course of 28 days (putting aside any strange time dilation physics anyone may want to invoke). -
@whispermouse Jan 2022
@burrsettles oh man, the "like" button is a tough one. Sometimes I DO struggle to do more than comment "nice guitar tone," but I DID like the song. There is something sorta un-FAWMy about it though, isn't there?
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@robynmackenzie Jan 2022
I’m of the mindset that a like button would very much take away from the spirit of FAWM and I don’t want one. But I do love the idea of promoting the less commented-on songs, maybe a “zong of the day” feature or something like it?
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@rwhosings Jan 2022
I don't think there 'should' be pressure to comment more than you are able to on a given day. Sometimes I think it's enough to give the little comments. In fact, I love getting lots of little comments! I know when I am typing them I can worry I'm coming off as trite, but if I am being truthful, then even short is another little drop of positive feedback.
I would love for more zongs to be promoted, or even FAWMer's who are under a certain amount of reactions to get promoted! Every day having something like a 5 Under 50 list, so 5 FAWMers with under 50 comments, so we can make sure that we spread the love around. -
@stephenwordsmith Jan 2022
I'm in favour of any feature that would ensure a FAWMer doesn't go forgotten or undiscovered. While we obviously can't provide the same level of encouragement or accountability for >1349 FAWMers as we could with 4, I think this challenge is first and foremost about creating and having the engagement and energy to create more, and if we can provide that positive feedback for as much of the community as we can, then everyone who takes part will have that chance.
I'm undecided about likes for songs, but I'd prefer not to see them for forum posts. They tend to highlight funny posts or posts that confirm popular biases, rather than posts with quality content. I then have to actively tell my brain not to let the like count colour my perception of the post. -
@coolparadiso Jan 2022
Yup no likes to my taste. Sure is hard to keep up but hey its one hell of a fun ride trying. I just do the best i can and know i will miss some people i wish i hadn't.
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@aflinner Jan 2022
@burrsettles Yeah, no like button, please. People shouldn't feel pressured to give a dissertation on every song they listen to (although in-depth feedback is nice), but I like that there's a personal touch there--even if it's just "nice guitar tone." :-) Besides, this isn't a competition between FAWMers, and "Like" counts feel too much like ranking. This has always felt like an authentic community--PLEASE don't ever let it go the way of social media.
Also, I find it more interesting to only be able to see how many times a song has been commented on (who knows? The listen count could be even higher) and read what others have had to say about it. The commitment to mostly listen to whatever fresh, raw music I come across not knowing what it is, and then look for the good in it, is one of the biggest wells of inspiration and musical growth that FAWM offers for me personally.
We all appreciate a friendly comment that lets us know that someone else has experienced our work (and maybe sheds some light on it). But we shouldn't let ourselves get bogged down by it too much. Just give what you can, and don't feel you have to give more than that. Still, I contest that small struggle is part of what helps us grow as songwriters most of the time.
How long will the site stay up post-FAWM this year? I feel like it closed down pretty quick last time...if we knew there would be at least a couple of months before the listening party was over, maybe people would feel less stress about it? (I know, as we get through March it can get to be a ghost town. Just a thought.) -
@chrishope Jan 2022
overwhelmed yes, anxious about recipricating commenting yes
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@odilongreen Jan 2022
@aflinner, as to the point in your final paragraph: https://fawm.org/forums/topic/12370/
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@lemonstar Jan 2022
I agree with @odilongreen I feel it has lost a lot of it’s small community feel and I do think it does need to change; there are so many people now that I just don’t feel part of it so I’d say my engagement has dropped. I think I’d be happy to be randomly assigned to a smaller group - there will be problems with any proposed change but I think it is worth giving it some thought. On a positive note though - I would not be the musician/songwriter I am without FAWM.
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@aflinner Jan 2022
@odilongreen excellent. Thanks!
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@cblack Jan 2022
I like the idea of promoting those with less comments. Perhaps 2 lists - lyrics-only and with-sound? I know lyrics typically get faaaaar fewer comments.
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@burrsettles Jan 2022
To be clear: a "FAWM take" on a "like" button — if we ever did it — would certainly not display it publicly, or at least not in any way that would allow someone to easily "compare" songs. At minimum, they would only be viewable only by the likers/likees, and at most on the song page itself in a very understated way. And any recommender algorithm would not weight them as heavily as comments, if at all.
I'm not entirely convinced likes would cannibalize comments.
Also, I see a lot of vocal "dislike" for the "likes," but it was the 5th most requested feature in the off-season survey I ran last fall! :) Of course, leaving it up year-round was even more requested, but that's not going to happen... -
@burrsettles Jan 2022
You'll notice that while comment counts are shown, there is no way to rank/sort/browse songs by number of comments, and that's by design.
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@timfatchen Jan 2022
@bithprod summarises my condition until the last couple of FAWMs where in trying to balance I lost balance entirely. Now, I find it's okay to fall off that highwire. People accept people here. But try to be extra nice to newcomers for whom it's a BIG room.
