The song, yes, but also the recording... Any recording/production goals?
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@guatecoop Jan 2022
Hey there, I know that there are many who are solely focused on the songs and decidedly not on the production, so I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of songs are more important than recording and production. What I would like to hear is how you record, what you hope to improve this FAWM, and any tips or things that you have learned that you might offer to be helpful to others.
I am going to be recording in a completely new space this year, with a completely different interface, and for some of the time a DAW that I have not used much at all. So, I have a lot of unknowns. That is one of the things that I really enjoy about FAWM--I try out all sorts of things that I will use for the rest of the year. I remember some years ago that I had been trying out the Glynn Johns drum mic approach and many people had some great advice. @w1n suggested that I try out Recorderman for drums and I have been using it ever since. In terms of challenges, I still find that I don't love my acoustic guitar sounds and I find vocals to be challenging, but maybe the new room and sound treatment will help that. I have a wide range of mics and preamps, so any advice is welcome! I look forward to hearing about your approach. -
@kanttila Jan 2022
This year I finally switched to XLR mics and got an interface for two mics. I have instantly gotten a better sound with acoustic guitars and drums. The cross mic set-up for acoustic makes it sound so full!
I'm still trying to get the two mic drum set-up down. The first mic is easy, just pointed at the bass drum, but the second mic is difficult to place. Especially when you have limited space, an average mic stand and smash the life out of your cymbals.
I don't like mixing or working out recording techniques. I wish I could just play and magically make an album that has the same production as the Clash's Give 'Em Enough Rope. But every now and then I upgrade things and try to make better sounding music.
I used a PS2 Rock Band mic for the first 3 years, then a Blue Snowball, then a Yeti and now two basic XLR mics. The switch has already made a huge difference! It is really satisfying when you put in the effort to upgrade. -
@ayehahmur Jan 2022
One of my issues the last couple of years has been in timing being a teeny bit off. That's okay for FAWM, but I don't really want to have to rerecord stuff for release if the take was otherwise a good one, so this year I'm going to record more of the backing stuff as MIDI and lock it down, then do the more expressive stuff - pianos etc over the top.
That's the plan anyway, but it'll depend on what songs pop into my head - knowing my luck it'll end up being 14 free jazz ballads with no percussion. But that's all part of the fun. -
@wobbiewobbit Jan 2022
i want to tidy up my recordings more, to be more precise but don't want to lose the spontaneity, get rid of the annoying messy bits but keep the scruffy charm - so treading a bit of a paradoxical line here. i like to have fun with the production side of things too so will be messing about all round with various things at various stages. i have acquired a lot of plugins now
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@guatecoop Jan 2022
@kanttila I guess that I will pass the advice that I got about Recorderman. You can do the 2 mic approach, which is one mic 2 drum sticks straight above the snare and one over your right shoulder (at the same distance for mic phase) from the center of the snare. I point that one more at the kick than the snare, but you can adjust how you point that mic as long as it is the same distance. I have also increased the distance by about 6 inches to give me a little more room to play. You can pan the two mics to give yourself the stereo image that you are looking for. I can be a bit heavy on the crashes and this tames them, but also keeps them enough in the mix.
@ayehahmur That is a great idea to start with the "fixed" midi for the first tracks to keep the timing. I typically start with guitar or bass and work "backwards" with the drums last, which is not ideal, but I usually don't know the whole song when I am recording different parts. -
@bachelorb Jan 2022
@guatecoop I feel your pain on the guitar sounds. I’m still very unhappy with mine.
This year is a deer in the headlights year. I picked a completely new genre I know nothing about. Right up until FAWM starts, I’m just trying to be a human sponge learning all I can.
The production is completely different too..... I’ll start that panic on February first..... :) My goal is to just get through it and learn something. -
@guatecoop Jan 2022
@wobbiewobbit Oh yeah, plugins....there are times when I seem to throw more of them at the mix and it certainly doesn't get better. A few times last year I just cleared out all of the plugins on a song and started over....But yes, keeping the "scruffiness" or authenticity or spontaneity is definitely the trick. I will never be a player who is so surgically precise though....hehehe
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@scubed Jan 2022
Although I’ve done live recording with Logic Pro for years, I’ve never moved much beyond the most basic functions. I’ve finally learned more about the what, whys, and hows of compression and EQ (baby steps!), as well as a few advanced editing functions, and I’m exploring better mixing techniques. I’ve also set up my studio for better recording. I don’t want to get too wrapped up in song production during FAWM because my FAWM songs are all rough drafts. But I’d like to have a better starting point for recording the revised “keepers” once FAWM is over.
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@ayehahmur Jan 2022
@guatecoop Well I guess the beauty of midi is that you can swap something out if it's not working. I think I just need to do enough to get the *feel* of the song - like a couple of off the shelf drum loops and a simple bass line, and go from there.
Which is an interesting thing to think about in the first place. Normally I'd sit down at the acoustic piano with a set of lyrics and create something which I'd then think up a backing to go with. But that always produces a sound with a ... let's call it *non-beat-led* feel. I'm hoping that one of the changes that will come from *starting* the write with the rhythm side of things is a set of songs with a stronger groove from the get-go.
So, in order to fix a practical issue (timing), I think I'm going to end up changing my entire musical style. A bit. I'm really not sure what the results will be like, but it's worth trying! -
@dasbinky Jan 2022
I'm in the (I think?) relative minority of FAWMers who love the production aspect as much or more than the writing aspect. I write to produce, in almost all cases. For my own work, the song IS the production. Writing, recording, and producing are one act.
This year, my focus is partly on telling a story through the arrangement.... making sure that that whatever is coming in and coming out does so in service of the song. My natural tendency is WALL OF SOUND. And I love that, and will keep doing it. But I'd like to justify it better.
And trying to use fewer plug-ins. I'm reading a book now arguing that you should be able to get by on 80+% of your songs using EQ, Compression, Reverb, Delay, and Saturation. I want to do more of that.
@guatecoop , if you're looking for good advice on recording acoustic guitar, Paul Davids has some lovely YouTube videos on his methods. They're pretty easy, and sound amazing. I gave it a whirl last year and it paid dividends. -
@ampersandman Jan 2022
I cannot separate the song from the recording, the sound is an integral part of the song. For this FAWM I want to play around with FX and soundscapes more.
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@bootlegger Jan 2022
I want to simplify on the songwriting department a bit this year. Maybe not even go for the full 14 but focus more on getting a good front to back album. Maybe cap it at 10 songs. Do demos. Then fully fledged mixes. But maybe keep it minimalist (for me, which will still end up being too much I'm sure). In my head the idea is to write 10 songs in the first week or so and get demos out and then spend the rest of the month adding to my baseline recordings (probably starting out just acoustic) and having something ready for wider release by the end of the month I can send off to mastering.
Idk about drums yet. Maybe programmed. Maybe recorded live at the studio. A lot of stuff up in the air but I want a more live, lofi sound this year for sure. -
@wrenarcher Jan 2022
Just like others have mentioned, I don't particularly care for my acoustic guitar sound when recorded and my "white whale" has always been getting a clean recording on vox and guitar. It eludes me and so I add filters, noise gates, EQ, noise reduction in an attempt to clean it up but to no avail.
One thing I did differently this year is set up a sort of soundproof box that my condensor mic goes in. It's just an oversized cardboard box stuffed with foam. Oh... and I also learned how to use my FX send on my little mixer so I am now using an acoustic simulator pedal which really helps me dial in the sound and tone of my guitar.
I don't have the most sophisticated of ears....
but it sounds SOOooo cool.
I sound like a radio disc jock when I talk into it and I've tested a dual mic set up that has my guitar sounding big and really nice.
At least I don't have to worry about that so much now. -
@atam94 Jan 2022
I've never finished 14 songs (this is my third year) but I have a goal of making a video for every song I make. I'm still going to do that this year, and whether I have 14 songs or not, I'll be able to watch my performance on video later on.
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@zecoop Jan 2022
I definitely love the production side of things, but it is a required part of my FAWMing, a I record one part at a time and (mostly) never really know what the song will be in the end. So, most of my songs sound like big productions. This really is just because I am a one man band and record live with microphones. I do very little MIDI stuff and when I do, I am playing live with my MIDI keyboard and it gets mixed the same as everything else, for the most part.
I know how to get the sounds I like on most things. My drums are all mic'd up and I'm definitely still learning to get sounds there, but have been happy. I like recording my acoustic guitars and have been really happy with the sounds I get - sometimes a single mic at the 12th fret, sometimes a stereo pair at the 12th fret and sometimes that plus another big condenser out front. It all depends what the song needs.
I do far less vocals than many, but have an iso ring around a large condenser that I modified last year with a new capsule. I can get something I am happy with.
FAWM is Feb Album WRITING month, I know, but writing (for me) involves a lot of producing and I love that part too. -
@siebass Jan 2022
I always strive to get better at my production. Your drum sounds are great, @guatecoop ! My setup is also hobbled this year due to basement flooding, but instead of my beefy mac mini I have to get by with my older macbook air, so I will be much more limited (goodbye, cpu/ram-intensive plugins) toolset. I think it will help focus me if I'm stuck with stock logic plugs for most things. My goals for any mix/production are always "1) less mud in the guitars; 2) can I hear the bass and kick on my phone; and 3) does it sound good in my car". I've been using handmade templates from other mixes I've done over the years and it speeds my process up a LOT. Give more time for creating and less for fighting with software.
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@siebass Jan 2022
@dasbinky I, too, really care about the production and improving my skills. FAWM is about rabid, creative writing and wild energy, but I also like to use it to hone my production. IMHO laypeople, nay, non-fawmers can have a hard time truly appreciating a song if the production is sub-par. They might not give your song more than 10 seconds if the high-hats are way too harsh, or if the kick is drowning things out, if they have a hard time hearing or understanding the vocal, etc. Caring about production is more useful outside of the safe FAWM space, and I feel definitely not the focus here (I don't comment on production in fawm unless specifically requested or I really enjoy XYZ), but I still always keep it in MY mind. It's always also a place that I can improve as well.
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@downburst Jan 2022
How do y'all mic your acoustic guitars? You can't just point a mic at the sound hole, you have to aim at the 12th fret or thereabouts. That one thing makes a huge difference.
For a while I was micing them in stereo, which was cool because I could play with the phase of the two signals for optimal chiminess. I kind of gave up on that because it was too much trouble, but it was a fun experiment. -
@guatecoop Jan 2022
@siebass Thanks! Who knows what will happen in my new room, as it is a bigger space, but a smaller "room". I have several 2x4 rockwool panels that I am going to hang that will hopefully help.
@wrenarcher @bachelorb the electric guitar sounds are pretty easy for me...the acoustic is another issue. I think that I am going to try the "mid-side" mic technique some this FAWM because (1) I never have and I try new things during FAWM, and (2) I have heard some recordings of acoustics with that approach and it seems amazing, though a little complicated at first. I think that I have my head around it now.
@atam94 I have never tried to make a video, but I always enjoy watching those who do them! Post some links on here when you do! -
@standup Jan 2022
I’m always interested. To me the production is fun and interesting.
This year I want to get better at recording acoustic guitars. One mic for guitar AND vocal, one mic for each (in figure 8 pattern to minimize the bleed), maybe some stereo acoustic guitar which I almost never do.
And drums. Mostly I record songs with EZ Drummer or the Logic drummer where it just sounds good from the get go. I’d like to get better at recording and mixing actual drums. -
@zecoop Jan 2022
I worded my reply wrong, I realize. There are always things to improve and always things I am looking for new ways to do. The mic capsule (RK-47 from Mic Parts) is a prime example. It should help me get the sound I am hoping for with much less fussing and mixing. We'll see.
@downburst - My standard way to record acoustic is a mic pointed at a 45 angle towards the body, very close to the 12th fret. If I want to hear the stereo image of the acoustic (a sparser song for example), I use a pair pf microphones at the same spot. One is angled towards the body and one is angled up the fretboard. I sometimes throw a big condenser in front of the guitar, but not right in front of the soundhole. I also have used a large condenser right at the 12th fret. All of these have been great for me. I have also tried pointing one mic at the front lower front part of the body, but it didn't get the sound I like. The most common is the stereo pair, since I can just use one if I want, or mix into a mono track. -
@sorby69 Jan 2022
This is an excellent and interesting topic/thread - thanks @guatecoop.
I haven't anything to offer (yet) but I sure am learning a lot.
Thanks @zecoop for reminding me it's WRITING month. I think I want to aim for writing (and demo-ing) as many songs as possible (because that's been a problem for me in the past), and if there's time, work some of them up with better arrangement, recording & production. -
@zecoop Jan 2022
@sorby69 - Many around here do a March Album Production Month, or something like that. I might have the acronym wrong, haha. Once you have a song, there's always time to go back and tweak it. Much of that (for me) is done in February, but I always go back, remix, master etc before I put everything up on Bandcamp. :)
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@nadine Jan 2022
I LOVE production, but time management urges me to focus on songwriting and arrangement and do all the mixing afterwards. Last year I tried to do both and it was too much. Now it's 1 month of songwriting and 11 of production xD
@siebass: Interesting words. Outside FAWM I feel like nobody cares for the song. I received plenty of technical comments on mixing and performance. I'm sort of done with it, cause I feel as composer AND producer. Have you thought about asking for mixing comments in your songinfo and profile? I'm sure some people can help.
@zecoop: Is it the XY technique? -
@whispermouse Jan 2022
@dasbinky I hear that - I enjoy the recording as much (if not more) than the writing.
I'm hoping to stick to 4-track cassette for most of my production this FAWM, which should be interesting.
I know it's album WRITING month, but I can never think of a song as "real" until someone else can hear it. -
@zecoop Jan 2022
@nadine - Yes, two identical mics with their front ends in the same place, pointed at a 90 degree angle from each other. There are various placements that people like and that really depends on what sound you are going for. I love putting them right in front of the 12th fret, as close as I can get without getting in the way.
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@yam655 Jan 2022
I'm going for more "ordinary, normal" songs this year. I'm starting from some BiaB templates with standard chord progressions. I finally replaced the Zoom H1 that I had misplaced, but when I did I also bought a floor mic stand, so I can stand and sing and not touch the mic. I loved my H1, but it could pick up some handling noise, and this should mitigate it. )
I also own some XLR mics at this point, but the H1/H1n allows me to record away from computers and power sources, and the mic stand included a carrying bag, incase I want to take it outside and record with some natural ambiance.
If I can find it, I own one of those Soundbrenner haptic feedback metronomes, so I may be able to record acapella to a tempo and later add a backing track.
On my own, I'm like, "Just keep the lyrics and improvise a new tune as needed." That's the songwriting part for me. I've gotten pretty good at that, though integrating chords in to my notes remains a challenge. Everything else is part of production.
For me, it is the production aspects where I have the most room to grow, and I have the most need for feedback.
Also, though, I want to gain production skills without sacrificing core speed. Anything that takes longer than an hour is too long to be viable. -
@yam655 Jan 2022
The Zoom H1n has two mics with an X/Y orientation. For someone wanting those sorts of mics, it might be easier to just get a Zoom and deal with pointing one mic instead of arranging two. Plus, the Zoom can either record directly, or function as a USB device, so it does not need another spot if your audio interface is already crowded.
(I only mention this incase it is helpful. Depending on what is already on-hand, it might cost a lot less than a more complicated setup.) -
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@sapient Jan 2022
Count me in as a fully paid-up member of Team Production :D
Over the course of the last few years, my base DAW template has been honed to the point where the sounds fall into place. What throws me off, and this is a thing I love about FAWM, is collaborations. Bringing someone else's guitar, piano, vocals, bagpipes (not yet happened - ever hopeful!) into a mix almost always has me scurrying back to first principles on compression and EQ - not just of the imported track(s), but of the whole song, just to find balance.
The one tip I can offer, after months spent this autumn mixing and mastering the new Bridge11 album (shameless plug - it's coming out on Jan 28th!!! ) is when in doubt, make things quieter.
Might sound odd to folks here who are familiar with the sort of noise I usually make, but I've been amazed at how many times I've dug myself out of mixing hell by doing this now... -
@guatecoop Jan 2022
@sapient I can totally see your dilemma! YOUR songs have such a consistent production quality, but you have been doing some really cool collabs over the last few years! Collabs that I would have never imagined-that turned out to be spectacular! Every one sounded excellent, though very different qualities because of the genres. That really is what is so cool about FAWM....well one of them anyway.
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@siebass Jan 2022
@sapient Good point on making stuff quieter. With tons of compressors on the whole mix chain, sometimes bringing everything instrument down by 12db (after you'd already nudged and nudged everything up slowly) can help all that stuff do what it was supposed to properly, instead of getting smashed against the signal chain and losing depth/clarity/nuance, etc.
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@ampersandman Jan 2022
@nadine – Well, this is not a surprising outcome if you post music to fellow musicians. Though I believe it’s the other folks that really matter, those who don’t judge production, the non tech-savvy listeners that just LIKE a song or don’t. I try to leave the producer hat off when listening, most of the time at least – also something that being a FAWMer taught me.
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@nadine Jan 2022
@ampersandman Thanks, I guess I should leave my producer hat in the wardrobe for February. Just remind me to fetch it when I'm back to production mode xD
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@sbs2018 Jan 2022
Production is more my focus. I worked on my vocals during 50/90 and made some progress at the end but now I fear I will be starting over because that’s what happens when you don’t practice your instrument. So I will probably be shadowing some vocal samples at first, hoping to build up my own voice, if I can during one short month.
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@thedutchwidows Jan 2022
I love all this stuff - endlessly fascinating.
I was given a cool mixing tip a few months ago that I want to play with this FAWM - start the mix with the vocal and mix everything against that. I had always tried to get a good instrumental mix, but it would often leave no headroom for the vocals so everything ends up sounding squashed. It never occurred to me to start with the vocal and mix everything to suit that, so gonna give that a go. That and try some better acoustic guitar recording techniques as I always seem to make them sound crap. -
@plumptunes Jan 2022
I very much enjoy the production aspect. I think making it a part of the songwriting process is a very valid approach. I'm probably going to focus mostly on the writing aspect this FAWM, though I'd like to try to get some solid tones with my 12 string acoustic. It will be a miracle if I can get anything decent out of my 6 string as it is currently having issues, but I'll probably have a go at that as well.
As far as drums go, I've found that the quality of the drummer and the drums are far more important than any mic or recording technique. -
@guatecoop Jan 2022
@thedutchwidows THAT is a great idea! So, if you don't have any vocal, I wonder what you would mix to--maybe the "lead" or melody role? hmmm....it could be a moving target depending on how it is arranged and how many instruments take the "lead". Very interesting.
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@sapient Jan 2022
@nadine -12 db LUFS is where ALL the cool kids hang out ;)
Tip nr2: get a really good metering plugin, zero it at -12 db LUFS and set everything to peak nicely at that point.
I also really like the free (https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Category_0_Freeware/) Blue Cat Audio gain tool. All it does is alter gain. Nothing more. But its got so much utility when compared to using yet another damned compressor.... ;) -
@zecoop Jan 2022
@guatecoop - I mean you kind of get an ear for the vocal fitting in (sometimes) especially if a song is written for a singer. BUT, as my many collaborators know, I like to have them send me the vocal tracks because what I mixed for the instrumental track is NOT going to stay the same once I put the vocal in.
I'm definitely going to look into the "set zero to -12" idea @sapient and @nadine -
@quork Jan 2022
I want to experiment with mid-side recording of instruments, and would like to stereo record guitar, but I don’t have a matched pair if mics.
@thedutchwidows , I record a scratch track of vocals/guitar to a click track, then build the rhythm section etc. around it. Then I re-record the vocals and guitar. -
@zecoop Jan 2022
@quork - You don't need a matched pair. Set up two different mics in an XY or one at 12 and one in front. You can get lots of interesting stereo images of an acoustic guitar without a matched pair. There are rules and then there is breaking the rules. Try some things out and see what sounds good. What sounds good to you should really be the only rule.
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@nadine Jan 2022
@sapient Gonna try, thanks a lot! Looks like a leveler with a feedback loop. Never thought about using this for mastering. I was so busy exporting dozillions of versions with different threadsholds and input gain until I found the right level >.< Uh yes, this can save a lot of time.
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@gubna Jan 2022
While I'm not sure how this year will end up, I kinda focus on both.
Somethings are creations that I make in my DAW, others are vocals/guitar based which often never make it to the DAW, and I record them with my phone or Zoom H2 and upload them from there with no edits. I do like messing with things in the DAW, especially doubling/cloning vocal tracks and pushing them slightly out of phase with each other to get the delay effect happening.
For the past 4 years I've done this, I haven't ever gone back to work on the tracks after FAWM is over, I just upload them into bandcamp as is. I don't know if that I get busy, or I'm burned out, but I just haven't. If it's something I post from my phone or I feel is unpolished, I will label it as a "demo".
I played in bands for years and recorded a couple of albums in a small studio back (to ADATs, and the last one was to 2 inch tape - even though we never finished the album). For the most part, I've been recording at home, direct into machines - first a four track, then a digital fostex VF08, then finally the DAW I have now. I kinda treat them all the same, I'm creating something, and I'm using those things to document it.
One year, I recorded my spoken word vocals through a rotary phone just because I wanted to. -
@quork Jan 2022
@gubna Like you, I never go back and work on my FAWM songs. Once they're demoed they're done and I move on to the next FAWM. Having said that, when I listen to them I can see lots of areas for improvement, either the song structure itself, or the vocals or the instrumentation. I either need to start working on those FAWM demos, which are put together in a hurry, or get better at the song creation and demoing so they can stand my test of time.
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@wobbiewobbit Jan 2022
@ayehahmur - i have been using that method lately, kinda fell into it partly because i find it nicer to write/record to a drum loop than a click track, and that led to mapping out a rough song structure with some variations or different feels, add some fills - maybe later - i find it a nice way to do things and also the drums suggest word rhythms that help creatively as well as groove-wise
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@meriamber Jan 2022
I upgraded my Cubase during Black Friday sales last year... Would love to actually spend some time getting to know the new interface!
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@boyatheart Jan 2022
I pretty much write as I record, so production and writing are part of one process for me. That's how I work mostly.
The last two FAWMs I wrote less than 14, but they were 100% complete when I posted them, so I was able to immediately release them. -
@cblack Jan 2022
I suck at recording, but that's partly an issue of inexperience and stage-fright stuff. I'm slowly getting better.
Where I shine, though, is the general mixing. It just makes sense to me, and I find it both easy and enjoyable. Compressors, EQs, choruses, reverbs, limiters... Everything like that I find pretty intuitive.
What I most need to work on is songwriting, though. -
@siebass Jan 2022
For my rock tracks these days I usually master to -8dB; I tried mastering to -12dB LUFS, but my whole album ended up sounding a bit quiet next to other rock tracks. Could just be my lack of skill, but I needed the extra volume for the album to sound right next to the reference. Probably just due to my lack of EQ skills, but still, that's my rock target, and I know it's loud, but it's not LOUD loud :P
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@looprication Jan 2022
Picked up a couple of FabFilter plugins on Black Friday, so hoping to make enough use of those to justify the purchases. I've been rereading Bobby Owsinski's excellent book The Mixing Engineer's Handbook, so I'm hoping to apply some of what's fresh in my mind to my mixes.
Also, released my first track to Spotify last year, so the goal is to release four this year, one every few months.
Most of my recording is direct in so I should be a lot better than I am, honestly, but there's still so much to learn. Props to those of you recording "real" instruments! -
@carlo Jan 2022
i'm looking forward to playing with some analog synth sounds(got the cheap Moog Werkstatt this winter and am working on making it gel with my keyboard controller), using the DAW as I write more--like playing a bassline and looping it or re-arranging it, or writing more riffs and stuff as I build a song and not just as flavor over the top of the initial acoustic guitar track or whathaveyou. Also vocoder--always thought they sounded cool, but haven't put in much time to figure it out.
I'd also like to experiment with sending the electric guitar through multiple paths to the DAW--maybe do some re-amping and mixing signals.
Might even try mixing something in 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound--could be fun, right!? -
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@nateger Jan 2022
I bought a drum kit and a goal of mine is to play around with recording live drums. I've mostly used Logic's Drummer to generate midi. I only have a 2 input interface so I think a 1 or 2 mic recording setup lends itself to a more garage rock sound. I'm excited to play around with sounding rougher around the edges
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@siebass Jan 2022
@guatecoop I use rock tracks from my favorite album, The Colour and the Shape, by the Foo Fighters. Monkey Wrench, My Hero, that kind of stuff. It's loud, but it's also some of my favorite music, and I can tell I'm in the right place with my drums and guitars if I can even get close. As a bassist primarily in my band, I emphasize the bass guitar a bit more than those songs, but otherwise I like that album as a target. Obviously it's good to have different references for different genres and all that, but I have found that around -8dB LUFS gets me in the area I like to be for my rock tracks and usually sounds about right against that album as well, as a twofer.
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@auditasum Jan 2022
I have a pretty simple setup with a Scarlett Studio audio input & condenser mic. Usually I record a scratch track and then each instrument individually, so there's no need for multiple mics.
Since last year I've assembled a recording booth out of PVC pipe and moving blankets. It definitely helps with the quality of the vocals if nothing else. -
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@nadine Jan 2022
@siebass This is exactly the trouble I have. Most albums I own are 8 dB, but I hate mixing my stuff this loud because the drums sound distorted. I don't have this problem around 12 dB but certain styles of heavier music lack of pressure. Now I struggle leaving it 12 dB which is my personal taste but too quiet inside a playlist - Push to 8 dB and hate my result (especially on pop music) - or 10dB which is something in between.
You can go a bit louder if you do proper low and high cuts. But I haven't solved the upper harmonic problem.
And YES using different reference tracks for different genre is perfectly fine BUT what do you do in a multi-genre album? This is where I stuck right now. -
@ayehahmur Jan 2022
@wobbiewobbit I think finding a way to improve things but doing so in a way that remains logical and intuitive to you is a really tough balancing act. Totally get what you mean about preferring to write to a loop than a click and, of course you need a different pattern for the chorus than for the verse, and so it builds from there. Good luck with it! Can't wait to hear the results.
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@cts Jan 2022
I'm going to work on layering. Particularly vocals and guitar parts. I'm also going to employ Joe Gilder's Top-Down mix technique. Not sure about the results as I'm still not confident of my mixing skills. I mainly mix by instinct but I'd like to have a better head-knowledge of the choices I make. We'll see what happens.
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@beyondthelimes Jan 2022
@guatecoop Great question. I'm a singer-songwriter/one-man band, but also love recording/production and the studio end of things. I've learned a lot; and still have much to learn (which is why it's so fun!). But for FAWM -- at least for my first -- I'm putting limits on how much time and effort I'm going to devote to the recording itself, so I don't get too bogged down in getting the vocal or the bass (God, the bass -- always the problem child!) to sit right in the mix or whatnot. I'm actually looking forward to allowing myself the freedom to just getting it good enough and putting it out in the world!
Oh, and shout-out to @cts -- I've seen Joe G. and other's vids on Top-Down mixing and have wanted to try that at some point. -
@dreamscuba Jan 2022
I also view the production as integral to my songwriting process. Some great advice here I will look into, especially building a consistent workflow with templates.
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@siebass Jan 2022
@guatecoop for metering, Logic pro has a built in meter, which I used for a bit on the whole song. There's tutorials on how to use it properly measure (I'll butcher the terms b/c I am an amateur) the "momentary" peaks vs the "average" peaks in loudness, so a lot of the time you'll need to run the whole song with the plugin on to see. I'm totally bought in to the Izotope production toolset, so these days I do my mastering in Ozone, which allows very fast A/B referencing and loads of other things. Not sure what comes with the Elements bundle these days, but I love the Izotope eq for its comparative masking and inverse links (link cut to a boost on an eq on another channel), Nectar for fast (but not that natural sounding) harmonies, and the Ozone Maximizer (just a compressor/limiter) for dealing with loudness. The maximizer has an option to set to "learn threshold" that I can set to -8dbF; I play it over the loudest part of the song and it quickly adjusts the compression to meet my loudness target; that's what I do the most these days just because it's so fast for my workflow, especially for a demo track.
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@siebass Jan 2022
@nadine Not sure, but the best you can is what I'd guess. What I have done is pick a reference track for each song, but then at the end master the whole album in one big session or track, to see if anything is too far off, and then adjust the individual songs a bit to make the whole album a bit more cohesive and close in loudness between tracks. So use the song reference for the individual track, and then see if there are jarring points when you listen to the whole and adjust again based on that. You can also adjust the levels of the tails/intros of songs to ensure the track transitions aren't jarring as well. Again, I'm just an amateur though, that's just how I do it, I don't know what's best or what's done in industry. I'm just an IT guy, lol. All I've done is watch a ton of youtube videos on mixing and mastering, and done my best to apply what I think works for me.
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@downburst Jan 2022
For basic loudness metering, you can't beat Youlean Loudness Meter, which is free.
https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/ -
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@outinpublicdrummer Jan 2022
In one sentence: I want every song to be good enough to put on my bandcamp and socials. :)
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@spirulence Jan 2022
I tend to do away with the "demo" stage of things - either the track sings on the first try or it becomes snippets for later consumption. Sounds like a sentiment shared by @gubna and @quork and some others in the thread here! Glad to have some company.
3 concrete goals for this year: better energy level changes between parts of the tracks, better endings, and more satisfaction with mic'd harmonica sounds.
I focus a lot on making the synth sounds that I use as interesting as possible - one goal for this year is getting better at dialing that interest up and down in service of the climax of the song.
In particular, endings are hard for me. I cannot stand fadeouts but I don't always have a great replacement. I usually just repeat some part of the chorus with less instrumentation.
I've never really been happy with how I've mic'd my harmonicas - I will be spending some time experimenting with it this FAWM. Will likely settle on something like a harmonica mic held in the hand plus a condenser or condenser pair for the room - the hand mic loses some of the expressiveness that you get from opening and closing the hands, and the condenser alone can sometimes get a little weird.
Slightly related: did you know that harmonicas can go out of tune? I did not and I was shocked earlier this year to find that I was off by about 12 cents on some reeds. Deeper practice here is also required. -
@quork Jan 2022
@spirulence Good points about miking the mouth harp. I usually play into a condenser mic on a stand, then run it through an overdriven guitar amp and effects emulation. I also have a couple of Lone Wolf Blues harp-specific pedals, a tube based overdrive and a delay, but so far I haven’t used them much. I’ll be sure to listen out for your harp recordings.
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@scottlake Jan 2022
Normally I go for full rick band production with EZ Drummer 2 on drums. Me on bass me on acoustic guitar, me on electric guitar, me on keys and me on vocals. That’s a lot to do AND write a song. Last year my favorite song I wrote was documented on my iPhone, sitting at the piano and doing one take. Probably many that way this FAWM for me.
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@scottlake Jan 2022
*rock
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@wolfkier Jan 2022
After working on my project since the end of last FAWM, (see my profile) I've done all I can to learn as much as possible about production, mixing and mastering. Although technically it can only be quasi or psuedo mastering since most of us don't have the expensive tools, facilities, experience, or technical education to really "master". (despite what youtube folks are selling). I believe it's a high art/science and have come to respect it as such, and those who do it with success professionally and transparently, letting the work shine. There's much to learn, but Ive set my loudness limit at -14 LUFS since most online music delivery services seem to hover around that mark and if there's any "sqashing" to be done I'd rather tackle that myself. Further that level choice here's an online (and VST) tool that might come in as handy to others as it has to me: https://www.loudnesspenalty.com/
Indeed, my plan, as I finish up my project, is to devote much more time to mix/remix and (quasi) "master" other folk's work... I hope to do some of that this FAWM, as "collabs" and to keep an ear out for wonderful gems and great talent that will give me the honor to "practice" and improve on the skills that I'm slowly developing. -
@siebass Jan 2022
@wolfkier I've used that plugin, and mastered to -14LUFS for spotify before, but my tracks still came out softer than what would play before or after. I'm guessing it's because I'm not an expert at eq and removing unnecessary/unpleasant frequencies so the whole remainder can sound louder, but my goal is still to have my stuff sound comparable to what others/pros are making, so I tend to aim louder, even if it gets a "bit" compressed by the online algorithm (long as it's not too much).
Regarding album mastering, I think one way to know you've done an acceptable job is if you never need to adjust the volume all the way through the album. A simple goal which I use and I think makes intuitive sense, whether you're aiming for -8, -10, -12, or -14. For me, mastering is about making sure the loudness is right within and between tracks, moreso than the barely-tangible mastering sparkle that folks with years of practice listening to frequencies can pull off, but YMMV. If you give someone an album, they may adjust volume at the beginning, but that would be it. -
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@johnstaples Jan 2022
Because my music time is severely limited most of the year I try to do complete productions during FAWM except for skirmishes. Most of these songs will never be touched by me again so I wanna get them as close to finished as possible.
I record mostly using a Zoom h4n digital field recorder. But I'm trying to use a *lot* more virtual instrumentation in my productions with me mainly performing live only what I can't get from those.
I use pro mixing and mastering tools and, again, I go for the shortcuts by heavily depending on presets. Maybe someday I'll have time to learn eq and compression and filters, etc. but for now, if I can find a preset that mostly does what I want with a few tweaks I am golden!
My wife hates it when I use the phrase "good enough" but isn't that really what everyone does? Just with differing definitions of where the line is? I think it was Zappa who once said a song was never finished, rather, it was just where it was when you stopped working on it. Yeah, Zappa knew! -
@johnstaples Jan 2022
I love what @wobbiewobbit said about "spontaneity" and "scruffy charm"!! I have some FAWM skirmish songs I released as-is because they were charming, warts and all!
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@siebass Jan 2022
@johnstaples definitely fits with the 80% rule, of getting everything to 80% when you are still learning, because that last 20% is brutal to get, and as you continue to improve your 80% from a year later will be better than the 100% a year earlier.
Good enough = a good philosophy to continue to enjoy and grow. I feel like "FAWM it and forget it" is also a common expression 'round these parts. -
@psyt Jan 2022
I have no specific goals in this regard. My songs are (and will be) finished songs as usual, not 'demos'.
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@elainedimasi Jan 2022
I keep coming back to this thread, and finding new things within it every time :-)
I think @thedutchwidows talked about mixing to the level a vocal should sit and @zecoop asked how that translates without a vocal? I think it's appropriate in many styles to mix to an overall frequency spectrum reference; adjusting so the various bands are at levels matching what's desired.
(Edit - I see there was lots more chat about reference tracks)
As a listener, I love everything - the sketches where you hear the bones of the song or the humor in it, and the produced gems that get you up and dancing.
And I do a little of everything myself, but I crave to participate in a great groove! Because I can't pick up a guitar and strum, there is no groove in my solo work unless I sit down at a DAW and build layers. Piano-only will not be what I'm after in these cases. Getting all these layers to a half-produced state unfortunately can be rather unsatisfying to the ear and not very groovy. A lifetime of listening to pro productions has set our expectations high. On the FAWM timeline, I just have to try my best. Very unlikely I will be going anywhere with the songs after Feb.
And anyways synths and FX are fun :-) :-) -
@downburst Jan 2022
Here's a Waves article on recording acoustics that kind of pulls all the conventional wisdom together in one place.
https://www.waves.com/how-to-record-acoustic-guitar-at-home -
@johnstaples Jan 2022
@siebass this,
"as you continue to improve your 80% from a year later will be better than the 100% a year earlier."
is brilliant! And absolutely true! -
@electrocelte Jan 2022
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@sapient Jan 2022
@electrocelte Why yes, I believe I did...
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@wrenarcher Feb 2022
HA!!! I think I did it! The mid side mic technique!
@guatecoop a week ago you said, “ the acoustic is another issue. I think that I am going to try the "mid-side" mic technique some this FAWM…”
Ever since I’ve been trying to do that but the missing link was I didn’t know how to reverse the phase on a track. Well thank gods and Al Gore for the interwebz because the kind people who live inside my phone told me which teeny little button to press.
Thanks G-Coop. My acoustic guitar sounds so much better than before. -
@mhorning Feb 2022
Goal? probably buy a USB interface, some mics, and install a DAW before the end of the year.
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@whispermouse Feb 2022
I'm currently thinking I'll take my favorite 3-4 songs from this FAWM, give them a bit more focused attention, and do a 4-track cassette "finished" version of them.
I did an EP of mostly FAWM songs a couple of years ago, but I chose songs from various years. I think it'd be interesting to follow through on some of this year's songs. -
@scottlake Feb 2022
I wanted to do something along the lines of Gary Clark Jr's super fuzzed out guitar like in Numb. It was actually easier than I expected. Gretsch 5120 -->Zoom G5 on the Good Fuzz patch.
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@guatecoop Feb 2022
That’s great @wrenarcher ! I have been using mid-side to try it out and I like it a lot for acoustic guitars, but don’t prefer it on the drums….or maybe that’s just in my room because of the figure 8 and how much sound from drums? Thanks for sharing!
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@andrewrusse Feb 2022
This is my first year doing FAWM (only heard of it on the 5th), and I loved the idea that it focuses on songwriting more than some other challenges. So I've shown up ready to write songs, record a quick live demo then move on to the next.
I make "Andrew Russe Band" productions too, but they take weeks sometimes.
The recordings I'm posting here are all one mic (Rode NT1000) live recordings of me and an acoustic in the living room, sat on the same sofa I've just written the song on. I'm not using a click, I'm not over-dubbing or splicing takes, I'm not even wearing headphones. I do a couple of practice runs to get the mic placement for the day's song/performance and go.
I have mics for XY and various other things, but to speed the songwriting and documenting process up, I decided this first year for me it's about getting a mono live take down, guitar/vox balanced by mic placement.
After that, I might do some editing for peaks - and I took four bars of aimless strumming out of one song.
Then it's some EQ for the song/performance and choose a reverb for the mix.
Then it's off to the mastering project.
Like my other recordings, I'm aiming at bang on -13db LUFS at the moment.
I'm using them only as song demos - a quick record/document of what it sounded like when I finished writing it. I'm not aiming at re-using any of these performances in subsequent arrangements.
I like doing productions too but, for me, my songs are, in the main, songs before and after they are ever recordings. -
@quork Feb 2022
@wrenarcher I keep meaning to use mid-side on my acoustic, but haven't got around to lining up my mics to try it. Kudos to you. Are there any of your tracks you'd recommend for a listen to see how it worked?
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@wrenarcher Feb 2022
Hi @quork
I think the best result I've had so far is my most recent but I'm afraid my mix has the vocals just a little hot. Admittedly, I don't really know what I'm doing as far as that goes but I really like how the guitar turned out. Not sure I'm getting the most out of the technique but it's improved the sound of my acoustic guitar recordings quite a bit from what I was doing before.
You can have a listen here. https://fawm.org/songs/132328/ -
@tseaver Feb 2022
@andrewrusse You're in good company: there are a ton of FAWMers whose output (or a big chunk of it) is purely acoustic one-takes.
That being said, treating the DAW as an instrument / palette in its own right is a different flavor of songwriting, but can be just as fruitfully delicious. "Horses for courses." -
@guatecoop Mar 2022
With all of the talk about mid/side mic technique, I actually did accomplish that goal of trying it out. I did NOT like it on drums, sadly. However, I did like it for acoustic guitar…
https://fawm.org/songs/136582/
You can also see and hear my mic setup as I play on the video collab “One Square “ here:
https://fawm.org/songs/136824/
Pretty cool! -
