I'm Drum Deficient, Rhythmically Remedial and a Cymbal Simpleton. What to do?
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@johncrossman Jan 2022
I basically use a drum track as a metronome and would like to step my rhythmic game up 0.5 to 1 notch. The most I do now is plug in Garageband's drums by chorus/verse configuration and make sure they're not obtrusive. I had EZ Drummer for a while but that computer died and they upgraded. I can keep a steady tempo on my rhythm guitar...
Suggestions for a potential next step or two? Ready to learn, time permitting. Thanks! -
@phenola Jan 2022
Depends on exactly what you're intending. If you're wanting to learn how to sequence beats, maybe have a play around with an online drum sequencer thing, e.g.:
https://drumbit.app/
There are some demos in the dropdown on the left.
For arranging drums in a DAW, the process is fairly similar, but (depending on exactly what you're using) you may have to sequence them using a different interface, e.g. a piano-roll one. Under MIDI, differently pitched notes on the piano will map to different drums. -
@johncrossman Jan 2022
That looks like a fun one. I'll play some more.
I guess I'm looking to sequence better drum tracks. I have a couple apps on my phone but they're glitchy and I end up thinking, now what? And I've been listening more intentionally to hear what the drums are doing when I listen to music. -
@wobbiewobbit Jan 2022
i use loops that come with Addictive Drums 2 - you can get basic set ups to build from, but the loops are played by drummers and it's great using them i find. Drum Lego!
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@yam655 Jan 2022
If you want something free (and cross-platform), there's Hydrogen: http://hydrogen-music.org/
I rarely play around with drums, but when I do, that's what I use. -
@phenola Jan 2022
Just one more general compositional tip: When I used to write tracks I would always start by programming a drum beat and then composing the rest of the track on top of that. For anything which isn't an explicitly electronic piece, though, I don't do that any more. I nearly always do the drums last nowadays, so that you can write them to complement the dynamics and accents within the song. It nearly always turns out much better.
Gavin Harrison spent an hour discussing this. This video is aimed at actual sticks-and-skins drummers, but I found it generally useful just in compositional terms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woI6t8dCQcQ -
@quork Jan 2022
If you have an iPhone or iPad Lumbeat has some fantastic drum apps, from rock to jazz to electronics to Brazilian. I can’t be bothered to get under the hood, so I use one of their many preset tracks, dial in the tempo, adjust the swing and fills settings, and away I go. Records in stereo, too.
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@celineellis Jan 2022
If you’re using garageband, there is a lot of versatility in the drummer tracks as well as manually programming drums with midi. There are some fantastic YouTube videos on how best to use the drummer track, how to generate and manage fills and how to vary the beat from section to section.
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@mikeb Jan 2022
Pony up for EZDrummer 2, its worth it!
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@spingo Jan 2022
@quork I keep meaning to try those Lumbeat apps.
This year I'm using Digitech Trio+ and SDRUM pedals with the external footswitch. The Trio+ also does bass and has a looper, and the SDRUM is more about custom patterns, just drums. You can add a fill with the footswitch, or it'll toss one in as you change between the three sections per song. -
@downburst Jan 2022
I use the Drummer in Logic (same as Garageband) and it's pretty great, when you're in its sweet spot. It's worth learning how to really tweak the various parameters (follow, swing, push/drag, ghost notes, fills, hi-hat open/close) for maximum grooviness. It's pretty deep... as long as you're in a kind of rockish mode.
But I'm interested in learning how to make more interesting beats. I've been listening to some left-field hip-hop of late (J Dilla, Flying Lotus) and the drum grooves are (1) amazing, and (2) utterly beyond me, to the point where I can't even figure out where to start with something like that. And the Logic Drummer's take on hip-hop is not great, to put it mildly. -
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@johncrossman Jan 2022
Good stuff, thanks everybody! I've been considering EZDrummer 2 and I do tinker a bit with the GarageBand drums, a little more each fawm. But I like the variety of ideas here. :)
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@splittybooms Jan 2022
I'll throw a couple pennies in if you're going down the programming/sequencing route.
You could start really simple with a kick and snare in a simple rhythm, then just keep adding bits and pieces in places that sound good. Its pretty basic advice, but to this day its how I build all my drum tracks.
As you build, you might discover rhythms that you didn't expect and that helps keep things interesting and allows you to make some pretty cool rhythm tracks.
Lastly, be random sometimes. Place notes on the sequencer in just random spots and see what it sounds like, and tweak from there. That random stuff often leads to some very cool drum tracks that you can build unique songs off of.
I lied about lastly. This is lastly. The drum sounds you use...in my humble opinion, they make a difference. If you use low quality drum sounds, I feel it would sap the inspiration to create away. Don't go spend a lot of (or any) money on expensive drum sound packs. Tons of free stuff all over the internet, and sound good too. Nice sounding drum sounds get your head and neck into the track, gets them moving. And it might sound corny, but I find when the head and neck are into it, only good can come of it. -
@phenola Jan 2022
Prompted by this thread, I went back and re-watched that Gavin Harrison video I posted earlier (and it's still great). The useful part, in which he discusses how to tailor a drum part for a specific song, probably starts about 35 minutes in:
https://youtu.be/woI6t8dCQcQ?t=1985
It's well worth a watch, IMO. -
@sbs2018 Jan 2022
If you’re using GarageBand on an iPad, there’s a really cool beat sequencer.
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@headfirstonly Jan 2022
Lots of free drum plugins out there for Mac. There's a selection reviewed here: https://www.careersinmusic.com/best-free-drum-vst/
If you still have your license number for EZDrummer, it's worth resurrrecting it, even if you only use it for uprgrading to EZDrummer 2, which is immensely powerful and allows you to customise beats you already have and save them as user MIDI files. EZDrummer 2 was a revelation to me when I started using it, and my stuff started to sound like it was being played by a proper band. I eventually upgraded to Superior Drummer, which is like having a recording studio full of drum kits and someone who can play them... -
@spingo Jan 2022
@quork Oh gosh no. I got the doohickeys because they do the most for little effort, not because they're flawless. And certainly not because a) I'm trying to make it sound "real" or b) I have any interest whatsoever in getting tweaky. Just good ROI for the least effort, because I'm lazy and not everything gets circa 70s drum machine boopboopbop. But some will! Also beats from various other sources, also low-effort!
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@rickatfulcrum Jan 2022
I'll always have a fondness for Addictive, but I went in a different direction with the new Mac and splurged on EZDrummer 2 and an additional drum kit. It shocked me how little I had to do to the sounds themselves to get them to sit in the mix and sound good without having to boost the high shelf unnecessarily.
Both Addictive and EZDrummer come with decent MIDI grooves so you're not reinventing the wheel.. says the guy who frequently winds up reinventing the wheel. -
@mikeskliar Jan 2022
This is a thread i need to come back to... but for now, its hard to make any kind of leap into that stuff. In terms of pc stuff (as opposed to the iphone) I know how to do a very basic record of a few tracks on my very very very old protools running on windows 7, using real mics and without any ability to do any midi or virtual stuff. The only little shortcut i've lately been using is (and I think this app may no longer be able to be downloaded?) is called 'music memos' and if i record a rhythm guitar track on/ my iphone, it 'adds drums' and kind of roughly follows along. I've been doing that a bunch the last few fawm, then using my iphone further to add a vocal track in garageband- not ideal in alot of ways (crappy iphone mic, for one) but it does get me some "rhythm" in there. Maybe one day when covid is over I can actually sit down with someone in real time and help me figure this out- I feel like i need someone to walk me thru this stuff step by step. otherwise im lost..
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@downburst Jan 2022
@mikeskliar, you should look into Garageband on your iphone. It won't do the follow-along thing Music Memos did (and why they don't build that capability into Garageband I don't understand), but it will let you easily record and use drum loops. It's not really complicated to learn and it's free.
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@tseaver Jan 2022
I can recommend the older stuff on Organic Drum Loops (https://www.organicdrumloops.com/archives-landing-page/). The newer, "earthloops" stuff doesn't suit my ears as well.
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@scottlake Jan 2022
I rarely recommend software as everyone has their own way of working. But EZ Drummer 2 is ace and I regret not buying it sooner!
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@mikeskliar Jan 2022
@downburst - thanks, tho I've never really been able to make drum loops 'work' for me. (its kind of hard to explain, I would have no idea what to do before I had a rhythm guitar track laid down, and it'd sound crappy on my phone, plus I'm used to playing live, not 8 bars x and 8 bars y kind of thing.. (does that make any sense?) Not trying to be difficult, but I just don't quite know where to start..
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@jamkar Jan 2022
When I need a drum track I usually download from (https://www.looperman.com).
But really like what I am reading here. -
@downburst Jan 2022
@mikeskliar What I often do is just get a simple (I mean REALLY simple) beat going—as @johncrossman says, it's not much more than a metronome, but it helps me play in time and, it's subtle but... groovier.
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@mikeskliar Jan 2022
@downburst - can you export something that's a few minutes long or do you have to cut and paste a loop or something? would be easier if you could just have a 4 min long drum track, for example. (I know, I'm really backwards where this stuff is concerned)
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@phlex Jan 2022
there's a good video of Kevin Parker (Tame Impala) talking about his favourite drum tracks, and one of them is a Serge Gainsbourg song where the drum track consists of nothing but a quarter note hi-hat played for the duration of the song. Sometimes it's all you need.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWv4TgvSPjM&t=317s -
@elainedimasi Jan 2022
@phenola @phlex Loving your answers. These videos are awesome.
Deconstructing songs that work and finding out what the drummer has done there is a really fun way to explore. It's not the fastest way to make a FAWM song of course. -
@dreamscuba Jan 2022
@johncrossman I use EZDrummer 2 a lot. I also use Drummer in Logic (and would probably use the Drummer in GarageBand). For my first FAWM, I was completely new to any kind of songwriting, I used some drum loops in the dodgy copy of Logic I had at the time... I started with EZDrummer (1) for my second FAWM (and lite version of Logic) and kept going from there.
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@thedutchwidows Jan 2022
@johncrossman - don't know if this is a helpful resource for you, but I know a session drummer that has set up a 'club' where you can download drum stems that are free to use in whatever way you want. It's free to join, but she asks that you give her credit or tag her if they get uploaded anywhere.
The stems can be downloaded as a mixed stereo track or as individual drums for you to mix yourself. They're all in song form, so about three to five minutes long with parts that could be choruses or verses etc, and there's a range of styles, tempos and time signatures to choose from.
The web address: https://drumstemclub.com and there's a video about them here: https://emilydrums.com/stem-club-about/
It's probably less flexible than a software-based solution, but can suit some people/situations - I'll often pick one I like the sound of, and fit a song idea to it. -
@terroratspacecamp Jan 2022
Last year, I used a Sdrum to great effect. Highly recommend for guitarists who are drum deficient. Pay no attention to all the hype about using it to strum out your rhythms though. That part is BS. What it really is is a drum machine which is very intuitive, quick to learn and makes smart drum fills and ghost notes.
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@beyondthelimes Jan 2022
I'm here to second @celineellis. I'm a LPX user, and the GarageBand drums work in same way as Logic. With a little practice, you can do all kinds of things. Here's a link to a YouTube channel I've followed for years -- all sorts of tips on how to get the best from GB, including the GB Drummer -- https://www.youtube.com/c/GaragebandandBeyond. And Music Tech Help Guy also offers drum programming tips, I think (and is otherwise a great resource) -- https://www.youtube.com/user/MusicTechHelpGuy. Others in the thread have mentioned EZ Drummer -- it's not free, but is very good -- I use that as well, and also recommend. Good luck!
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@airbagtester Jan 2022
I often get stuck in a chicken/egg scenario of "Which will come first - the drums or the chord progression?" Sometimes I try to write/record guitar to a metronome and then write drums later, but I usually play better guitar if there are drums I can react to.
One FAWM I had the luxury of inviting my drummer friend over and just press record and "Go!" That worked best for me and was the most fun. -
@airbagtester Jan 2022
I've been listening to Lady Wray - Queen Alone, the Instrumental versions, for some serious drum schooling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ydnLtQ4SLM&list=OLAK5uy_mpqdeWTxDog_Ah-T4RaxwkO0EZLEwqP6E
There are some really simple grooves in there I think I could duplicate on a midi controller or even a cardboard box and another small box of paper clips. -
@celineellis Jan 2022
@beyondthelimes totally agree with your vid recommendations- I learned GB drummer from Garageband and beyond channel!
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@johncrossman Jan 2022
Thanks again, y'all. So many good suggestions! Next, videos, here I come. :)
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@siebass Jan 2022
Logic also added a beat sequencer in an update last year or the year before, which you may even be able to use with Garageband. I'm not sure what they give you these days, but worth checking.
Usually I just start with the AI drummer, and convert to midi if there's parts I don't like, and manually edit the midi to get it where I want it, FWIW. The AI drummer has so many great options for tweaking and fills, it can get 80-90% of the way there, sometimes. -
@speed0doyle Jan 2022
One thing I use to make more interesting drums is I throw in a simple drum loop, and then throw in another drum loop with a different pattern on top of that. Then I change the volume and eq a bit, so you end up with ghost notes, unique (ish) patterns, etc. a touch of delay can help too.
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@gubna Jan 2022
Alex Ball, who has done several synth company retrospectives, History of Roland, one on The Prophet synth, and several others did one on the Linndrum.
He posted free samples of it. Just go to the link below the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OltD7omY0ew -
@whispermouse Jan 2022
@airbagtester I hear you on the chicken-and-egg problem. I usually record guitars to a click, maybe chop them up, double a chorus, whatever, then set drums to it. If I'm feeling ambitious (for FAWM at least), I'll then re-record guitars to the drum track to improve the feel.
I don't know what I'm going to do this year, as I'm trying to work mostly in a 4-track format. I'm going to have to pre-write the drum track and put it on tape before playing along to it. -
@frenchcricket Jan 2022
The midi tracks that come with EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer are legit. I would update your EZD licence if I was you. It’s good value.
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@guatecoop Jan 2022
That is a tough thing to do for me, as I record drums last by necessity. I think that doing the drums first would lead me to having a structure that was limiting. However, if it’s a sketch, then I guess that’s okay. I think that I’d also end up with a pattern of similar song structures resulting in a rut. I guess if you have time to lay out the outline first….this is always a tough part for me. I end up recording everything else with a click track and just deal with the drums last.
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@ductapeguy Jan 2022
My personal musical learning goal for the last several years is to figure out exactly what it is that drummers do. As far as I can tell the answer is: alchemy.
I use Irealpro and Band in a box (and sometimes my Treo pedal) to provide robot drums. I prefer to record to some kind of drumbeat rather than a click.
I have a cajon that I've been monkeying with a 2 kick pedal setup to accompany myself on guitar. I sometimes palm an eggshaker in my right hand to add some percussion while I strum.
I get some good results with the free version of Jamstix.
Since the beginning of lockdown, I have been monkeying with a series of midi pad controllers. I now have an NI Maschine MK2. I have been using the Melodics platform to learn some rudimentary finger drumming. I can now play and understand 2 or 3 rudimentary backbeat patterns. I have been learning the Maschine software, but the whole paradigm and workflow of sample and loop based music in unfamiliar to me.
It all adds up to Keep the beat and the groove going to support the song, However you get it in there, rhythm is the foundation of the song. -
@frenchcricket Jan 2022
if you're going to program drums a good piece of advice I received was to use the swing function (this is on Ableton, might be called something else elsewhere). Basically it moves the off beats slightly off the grid so that it doesn't have such an uptight, robotic rhythm.
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@ohljazz Feb 2022
I use Drumgenius a lot (https://www.projazzlab.com/drumgenius/) - superb collection of drum samples in a wide range of styles, which you can slow down/speed up as you need. I used one of those samples in a short cover video this week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EizLR6oMuQ
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@tunecat Feb 2022
Thanks got all the great tips. I must admit I tend to write to a groove that I make with the app ‘figure’ . It’s not suitable for everything and it doesn’t really do fills - but it will ( with a big of care ) give you a nice rock solid beat and has some great sounds. I have had a lot of fun with it. Anybody who’s interested my whole site this year is pretty much videos of me live programming figure. So maybe that could be of interest.
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@dukongp100 Feb 2022
while this may not apply thought id mention it
found a video by a youtuber fidabulous, which shows a 'hack' to playing drums. the tldr version is he breaks down how to play a very basic set of fills based on punk, metal, and rock. he then shows a standard fill which can be played however you like, with only a little variation. note, that this isnt a surefore way to be a drummer, more a concept of thinking about it and having a illusion of competance.
while this can be debated endelessly i feel, the actual idea is to just get playing music, with very basic understadning.
one final note, he suggests to learm bits of other drummers stuff, so you can apply it to your riff bank, so to day.
oh forgot also.... look into how ringo star and lars ulrich play the drums. they may be considered more pocket drummers ( in that they provide the bands a suitable adequate beat to mesh together the music ) while adopting creative roles by changing the approach to drums instead of a 4 to the floor.
basically, messing about, throwing whatever they like at a wall and seeing what sticks, thats their individuality. lars did this mostly early career but is settling into being a basic backing drummer, but used to be creative with his fills and stuff.
may be some useful things there or not.